Bullet damage - Page 2

ElMonoDelMar · September 30th, 2006, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P95Carry

"The cross sectional area of a 45 cal bullet is about 50% larger than for a 38 cal bullet, and therefore 50% more blood will be lost over a certain time. Or a 50% larger hole will be made in a criminals brain, heart, lung, etc."

This stat is a little misleading.

Assuming all things equal, a .45 caliber hole is only 1.40 times the size of a .38 caliber hole. So in actuallity a 1.40 times larger hole will be made in a criminals brain, heart or lung with a .45 than will be made with a .38. Seems pretty insignificant to me.

RSSZ · September 30th, 2006, 08:42 PM

I say, almost any caliber,with almost any bullet,several times,in COM.

I got better things to worry about.

Things like training. Things like preparidness. Things like mindset. ---------

.45acp · October 3rd, 2006, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QKShooter

I'm staying with my .45 so I'll not worry about it and just concentrate on putting any possible future life-defensive shots in hopefully effective locations.

Me too

ron8903 · October 3rd, 2006, 01:54 PM

IMHO shot placement #1, #2 Size of projectile.
Remember a .22 in the hart kills just like a .45 in the hart will.

Rob72 · October 3rd, 2006, 05:25 PM

Big holes, more holes, holes where they need to be. Modern HPs generally all equalize with around .55-.60 optimal expansion. "Optimal" is the operative word. Energy optimizes expansion, with proper design, but has little to do with "shock" in the 100-240 grain, 1400fps and lower envelope. The surgeon is correct, in that aspect. A gut-shot with a .30-06/7mm/.308 spitzer will definitely take the wind out of a homosapien's sails, via neurogenic shock.

Redneck Repairs · October 3rd, 2006, 05:38 PM

to heck with popcorn ... i orderd pizza and a 12 pack for this one lol

Vulthoom · October 19th, 2006, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElMonoDelMar

This stat is a little misleading.

Assuming all things equal, a .45 caliber hole is only 1.40 times the size of a .38 caliber hole. So in actuallity a 1.40 times larger hole will be made in a criminals brain, heart or lung with a .45 than will be made with a .38. Seems pretty insignificant to me.

You have to take the difference in the "hole" size, and factor in penetration depth. A hole 1.40 times the size of a .38, over the same penetration distance, will actually disrupt far more tissue, and cause a lot more overall damage.

Tangle · October 19th, 2006, 05:19 PM

You're assuming that a larger caliber will penetrate to an equal depth as the smaller caliber. What if the smaller caliber penetrates deeper? If the smaller caliber penetrates more deeply, the volumetric damage could be the same or more than the larger caliber.

ElMonoDelMar · October 19th, 2006, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tangle

You're assuming that a larger caliber will penetrate to an equal depth as the smaller caliber. What if the smaller caliber penetrates deeper? If the smaller caliber penetrates more deeply, the volumetric damage could be the same or more than the larger caliber.

Bingo.

Lew · October 19th, 2006, 10:53 PM

So engery and velocity are now irrelivant? Cool, I can trade in the expensive gun and sharpen the end of a 2x4 for a nice big hole. Hey, it's bigger than a .45, right? See, size matters....

While I have not read the previous posts on this subject, I can totally see why it is a "here we go again...". I thnk this post needs some levity.

I read the published work of another doctor 10 or 12 years ago, who said that for GSW victims that did not die right away, from the wound itself, the leading cause of death was infection from the victims clothing. He seemed to think the bullet was "sterilized" in the barrel, ( I doubt this but for the sake of discussion will let it go...) and the infection was caused by the bullet carrying small amounts of clothing into the wound with it. These containing germs and other bad stuff leading to infections and then death....

I don't know if it is true or not. The argument seemed to be logical the way it was written and the way I read it. So if it is true, if you plan on getting shot, stay naked? I think not, I want my carharts, in layers, with a vest, or two....

October 3rd, 2006, 01:54 PM	#14
ron8903 Distinguished Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,827	IMHO shot placement #1, #2 Size of projectile. Remember a .22 in the hart kills just like a .45 in the hart will. __________________ "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Sir Winston Churchill

October 19th, 2006, 10:53 PM	#20
Lew Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wiscasset, Maine Posts: 322	So engery and velocity are now irrelivant? Cool, I can trade in the expensive gun and sharpen the end of a 2x4 for a nice big hole. Hey, it's bigger than a .45, right? See, size matters.... While I have not read the previous posts on this subject, I can totally see why it is a "here we go again...". I thnk this post needs some levity. I read the published work of another doctor 10 or 12 years ago, who said that for GSW victims that did not die right away, from the wound itself, the leading cause of death was infection from the victims clothing. He seemed to think the bullet was "sterilized" in the barrel, ( I doubt this but for the sake of discussion will let it go...) and the infection was caused by the bullet carrying small amounts of clothing into the wound with it. These containing germs and other bad stuff leading to infections and then death.... I don't know if it is true or not. The argument seemed to be logical the way it was written and the way I read it. So if it is true, if you plan on getting shot, stay naked? I think not, I want my carharts, in layers, with a vest, or two.... __________________ There are 2 types of people, victims and the prepared. I choose to be prepared.... "Bless thee, O Lord, This handgrenade, that it may blow thine enemies to bits. Amen" ~Monty Python's Holy Grail My Blazer Website My new, Unofficial Cam and Company Fan site.

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September 30th, 2006, 08:42 PM	#12
RSSZ Distinguished Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Posts: 1,847	I say, almost any caliber,with almost any bullet,several times,in COM. I got better things to worry about. Things like training. Things like preparidness. Things like mindset. ---------

October 3rd, 2006, 05:25 PM	#15
Rob72 VIP Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: OKC, OK Posts: 3,031	Big holes, more holes, holes where they need to be. Modern HPs generally all equalize with around .55-.60 *optimal* expansion. "Optimal" is the operative word. Energy optimizes expansion, with proper design, but has little to do with "shock" in the 100-240 grain, 1400fps and lower envelope. The surgeon is correct, in that aspect. A gut-shot with a .30-06/7mm/.308 spitzer will definitely take the wind out of a homosapien's sails, via neurogenic shock.

October 3rd, 2006, 05:38 PM	#16
Redneck Repairs VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,141	to heck with popcorn ... i orderd pizza and a 12 pack for this one lol

October 19th, 2006, 05:19 PM	#18
Tangle Senior Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chattanooga Posts: 5,783	You're assuming that a larger caliber will penetrate to an equal depth as the smaller caliber. What if the smaller caliber penetrates deeper? If the smaller caliber penetrates more deeply, the volumetric damage could be the same or more than the larger caliber.