mr.stuart

Good read!I must say,the .38 S&W,and the .357,are my favorite guns.

Hoot

I too enjoyed your write-up. I shoot more .38 spec. than anything else, primarily because it is inexpensive to reload, and I have more than a dozen guns that eat it. I think you're right, the .38 Sp. has been ignored by the ammo folks. I recall in the early eighties I was taxed with the job of selecting a duty round and the round had to produce at least 250 Ft. pounds of energy. There was only one round commercially available that would do it, the 110 gr. +P silvertip. That is pretty pathetic. So I think ammo was pretty sorry in the day of the .38 unless you loaded your own. I have some of the old SuperVel and I have a box of Norma with a jacketed soft point that I bought in 72. It was better than most stuff, but I preferred handloads or the old FBI 158gr load.

By the way, if memory serves, the .38-44 was not a load per se. It was a S&W model that was introduced many years before the advent of the .357. It was .38 special caliber but built on the .44 Outdoorsman frame (N frame). It was for handloaders who wanted to push the envelope I suppose.

There was, and is, a .38-40 round, but it is actually a 40 caliber bullet in a slightly bottlenecked case. It's original charge called for 40 grains of black powder. It was the .357 of its day. I can't imagine why it was dubbed the 38-40 rather than the 40-40. This round was loaded commercially with smokeless powder long after the end of the black powder era. It is still an excellent cartridge even by today's standards.

Captain Crunch

Actually, in the 1930s, there was a Remington .38-44 load, dubbed the .38-44 High Velocity or Hi-Speed, dimensionally identical to the standard .38 Special, for use in, as you correctly noted, the .38-44 Outdoorsman revolvers, later known as the Models 20 and 23. This load eventually evolved into the .357 Magnum in 1935.

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Terry

bmcgilvray

Thanks for your kind remarks. All I can say is that there's a bunch of old-fashioned geezerness in some of the above posts.

I like those Model 10 Heavy Barrel revolvers. They're great! Good for a newby as a starter and actually good for anyone. A revolver man who is skillfull in the use of speed loaders (like I'm not) and accurate with his revolver in both single action and double action mode is as expert as any auto pistol user.

I've obtained exactly the same velocities with that 5.4 grain charge of Unique mentioned out of the same barrel lengths. That's a good, healthy load that I've used in the past when carrying handloads for self-defense. The Buffalo Bore +P load looks like the heir apparent to old fashioned hand loading efforts to obtain performance. Good for Buffalo Bore for spending some time on the .38 Special for the benefit of all.

I've always intended to gather up a supply of factory .38-44 ammunition for limited testing. I do have a few empty cases. They feature large pistol primers. Kind of a bummer to run across one of them when priming a quantity of mixed brass.

coffeecup

Wish I had the lead back that that cast into the old Lyman/Keith 358 mold. Like you, I wound those things up pretty tight years ago.

One thing I would like for all of us to keep in mind---Who is it that pays the bills for gun rag publishers? (hint) it isnt the readers.

PeterCartwright

I developed a new appreciation for the model 15 when I started using it for IDPA stock revolver class last Summer. Found my gun with honest surface wear but fully sound internals for $200 less than 10 years ago. What a wonderfully sweet shooter! I've had all kinds of fun "taking it to" friends with newer, far more expensive wheel guns. Can't imagine why one would feel undergunned with a properly loaded K-frame and reloads. And I've nothing against bottom feeders...even the 9X19 variety. The .38 spl. remains a fully useful classic. The good old "FBI" load works well, but I suspect that recent developments in ammo even improve the street effectiveness of the time-proven war horse.

JohnKSa

While it's true that the .38Spl is given short shrift today in terms of marketing and gunrag article exposure, the idea that it has been downloaded in recent times is not based in fact.

Handloading resources may have reduced their maximum loads over time due to concerns about liability but Handguns ran an article in the August/September 2006 issue in which they tested some vintage ammunition vs modern stuff. The specs were very similar, no evidence that the modern stuff was watered down.

The apparent slow reduction in velocity began in 1977 when SAAMI put pressure push the ammunition companies to publish velocity figures for .38spl and .357Mag ammunition based on chrono information from 4" Vented test barrels instead of the longer unvented test barrels they had been using. As the different companies came into compliance over a period of years, the appearance was that the ammunition was slowly being reduced in power. In reality, there was no reduction in power, only a change in the testing procedure, and the change happened abruptly for each company. It's just that the companies didn't all comply at the same time.

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forestranger

I started reloading in the mid 60s using mostly Hercules(now Alliant) powders for 38 sp., 357, & 45 acp. Used the same loads thru late
80s. Went about 10 years and didn't reload any, got ready to start back, realized latest loading data put my old 38 loads off the chart especially with Unique and Blue Dot. I contacted Alliant and asked them if powders had changed. They said no and the rep didn't deny that liability was main reason for reduction in 38 sp. maximum loads. Big difference in old 45 colt data and new data too with Alliant. Oh well, getting old and don't enjoy shooting those hot loads as much anyhow!

Catalina

The Miami FBI shootout had a huge impact on the fall off of the .38 special.

The Gun Zone -- FBI Miami Firefight

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rdrancher

bmcgilvray

Excellent read!

Thanks for taking the time to bring it to us.

rd

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