cphilip

All things center from a comparison from the .38. Seems it left its mark after all. It will always be the benchmark.

No collection is complete without something that will shoot a .38.

Great story and great perspective. Thanks for taking the time to share what was on your mind. Conspiracy? Well... not sure its nor more then just Fads.

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bmcgilvray

Hi JohnKsa;

I recall when the infamous 4-inch vented test barrel data began to be published. It appeared to me at the time that it was as artificial a method for rendering velocity figures as was the earlier system and gave a stunted picture of what handgun rounds were actually doing. It made having one's own chronograph worthwhile. That 4-inch vented test barrel really knocked the props out from under the Magnum handgun rounds such as the .44 Magnum which I was playing around with a bunch at the time, and also the .357 Magnum. It will be noticed that the arbitrary standard "4-inch vented test barrel" isn't much quoted these days. While I'm no laboratory I did watch some .38 Special loads be discontinued and also later lots of the same style of ammunition, especially the so called +P, yield diminished velocities in my guns when compared to earlier ammunition on side-by-side tests.

Welcome to the Forum by the way from one Texan to another. One simply can't have too many Texans involved in anything. Don't know which part of Texas you are from but feel that I probably went past your house at some point this past weekend between travel for work and personal activities. Anyway, we saw way too much Texas pavement in the past three days.

pistola

I'm conspiring at this moment to find yet another fine revolver chambered for .38 special. I have been personally aquinted with the 38 Spl. for well over 35 years(yep OLD GEEZER here). I have seven, from a 1 7/8"bbl. S&W 640 belly gun to a Python Target w/8"bbl. I have always liked the cartridge, and must say it is one of my favorites. I think everyone should have at least one .38 Spl. of each in the following;snub nose, 4"bbl. fixed sights duty revolver,and a target revolver.The .38 Special is not an end all stop all magnum,but it is still holding it's own after 100 years, and in skilled hands it is still an effective defensive caliber.

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Texian

Hottest .38 Special factory loads from the 1970 Shooter's Bible:

Remington: High-Speed 150g RNL, 1090fps, 415fp, 6"
Winchester-Western: Super-X 150g, Metal Piercing, 1060fps, 375fp, 6"
Federal: High Velocity, 158g RNL, 1080fps, 415fp, 6"

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bmcgilvray

Thanks for the information Texian. My old magazines, annuals and such are packed away just now.

Those velocities are attainable with judicious handloading in real revolvers too if one consults older manuals and watches his P's & Q's. Especially review the listed loads for Unique, 2400, and SR 4756. Both the Sierra publication from 1978 and the Speer No. 8 could be considered radical by today's standards with a few listed propellent powders. The older Lyman manuals are a bit more sedate but still provide .38 Special loads that will break 1000 fps with a 158 grain bullet if one is inclined to go there. Phil Sharp's 1937 work is down right hair raising! No way one should attempt some of those recipes for loads with Unique or 2400, both of which were on the market at the time.

Actually the .38 Special is most fun with the famous concoction of 148 grain hollow base wadcutter over 2.8 grains of Bullseye, a powder puff load that is very entertaining and gratifying to shoot for group in a good revolver.

JohnKSa

Thanks for the welcome!

And you probably did get close at least. I live just east of DFW.

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bmcgilvray

Hi John;

Nope I wasn't in your neck of the woods last weekend but am always heading to Tennessee to see my two sons who are in college there or else to Mississippi to see friends so frequent that part of Texas too. The car has I-20 and especially I-30 figured out by now as the oldest is in graduate school.

Just want it to be clear that I've not used my .38 Specials on those "...boyhood home of William Jefferson Clinton" signs on I-30 outside of Hope, Arkansas. It's amazing how many bullet holes they collect and how frequently they've been replaced in the past 7 years.

Doc Holliday

Great read!!!

I got in on the tail end of the wondernine craze with my first pistol, a P226 back around 1998. I then got into the Glock craze with a G21. Went back to a wondernine in a P228. Bought into the Kel Tec pocket gun .380 craze as well. And yes, I do own an evil black rifle as well.

But it seems that within the last year I have gotten very old school. (I'm only 31.) I got an M1 Garand. I also carry a 1911 Officer's model now and I desperately want to trade my Kel Tec for..............a Smith and Wesson .38 snubbie which I plan to load with.......the old FBI load!

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They'll be less apt to get nervous if he's on the street howitzer.

Why, Johnny Ringo, you look like somebody just walked over your grave.

I have two guns, one for each of ya.

dukalmighty

My first handgun i shot was a model 15 S&W 4" in the USAF Security Police,I qualified expert which wasn't that hard IMHO,IIRC it was 89 out of 100 rounds at 25 yards

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bmcgilvray

Since this post came up again I'm going to stick up a few photos of the old Super Vel ammunition.

I moved recently and discovered I still had a full box along with a partial box in the back of my ammo locker, hidden behind the boxes of .38 Special. I'm tickled to find it, especially the partial box which I will retest over the chronograph soon.





I got my chronograph in 1979 and am thinking that Super Vel was one of the very first factory loads I chronographed. I recorded the results and post them here.

2-inch S&W Model 36: 1100 FPS, 296 ft./lbs. energy
4-inch S&W Model 10: 1237 FPS, 376 ft./lbs. energy
8 3/8-inch S&W Model 14: 1321 FPS, 426 ft./lbs. energy

I'd like to know what the propellant is that's in the loads. The longer the barrel the more the bullet keeps accelerating.

I used to purchase the Super Vel back in the 1970s from George Moore, a retired fellow who sold reloading stuff and ammo from out of his shop at his home. He lived in Handley, Texas, just east of Fort Worth. I finished off a deer once that I'd spine-shot with a .30-40 Krag by shooting it with one of the 110 grain Super Vel loads. It entered the chest wall, holing the heart, and past down through his left front leg, stopping near the knee. It looked as if it could have been hand loaded into another case and used again. Though I was impressed with the velocities the Super Vel loads gave I was disappointed in the expansion performance. It did finish the buck however.

It didn't seem to expand consistently in other non-test mediums like wet or dry Fort Worth phone books, sand, clay, water jugs etc. either. The bullet must have been tough.

I see in my notes that I chronographed the Super Vel on July 1, 1980. Bet it was hot that day. May have "enhanced" the velocity performance.