Heard an interesting debate. Any thoughts?

bobcat35 · February 17th, 2008, 02:04 PM

yesterday while looking around the guns at gander (wishing i had the money for the .50 they were selling). i overheard one of the customers and a clerk both appearant gun guys debateing wether .45 long colt or 410 slugs are better for defense. unfortunatly i have no knowledge of these two cartridges but the debate sparked my interest wich would be better for a small bug.

Superhouse 15 · February 17th, 2008, 02:38 PM

If it was from a pistol like the Taurus Judge, I would lean towards the .45 Colt. Most of the .410 slugs are actually pretty light. I have a bunch of Federal and they weigh 109gr. Pretty light and who knows what performance you get from a short barrel compared to an 18" shotgun. Federals cheap .45 colt load weighs 225gr, Remington lists 225 and 250gr lead loads. There are a bunch of super high performance .45 Colt loads for hunting and such.

Federal Premium Ballistics

The Box O' Truth #41 - The Taurus Judge Vs. The Box O' Truth - Page 1

CORBON Hunter

aus71383 · February 17th, 2008, 03:13 PM

I'd go .45 LC myself. The bullet is going to be 180 grains or more at worst - likely closer to 250+ the .410 slugs are much less than that. I don't like on the Box o' Truth how he just cuts down a 3" .410 to 2.5"....that's not realistic - or safe. Just my two cents.

Austin

bobcat35 · February 17th, 2008, 03:20 PM

tango-mike thanks for the info.

kpw · February 17th, 2008, 03:48 PM

Most .410 Foster type slugs are 1/5 oz., a little under 100 grains. Out of that short barrel, I doubt your seeing a 1000 fps. That puts it around .380 ballistics with less penetration. Shooting them into water from an 18" barrel, I got a lead ring and a couple of fragments and very little penetration. You'd probably get less deformation and a bit more penetration from the short barrel but the .45 colt loads would do much better.

Scott · February 17th, 2008, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcat35

wich would be better for a small bug.

Neither would fit in a small BUG, so I would pick neither for that job. Having a gun chambered for both I would go with 45 Colt. More options and better energy for most loads. I know some folks who favor the .410 with shot for snakes and small varmints. To each their own.

Superhouse 15 · February 17th, 2008, 10:57 PM

I guess this might qualify. If you had only one shot for a BUG, .45 long Colt, no contest.

GunBroker.com guns: 3 fmj 45/.410 derringer mint nib consecutive s.n. (item: 92204244 ends: Feb-19-08 01

49 AM)

Puppy · February 17th, 2008, 11:09 PM

I agree. Are you sure the debate wasn't .45 vs 410 shot?

Then it becomes debatable but only as to range. To me, the Judge would make a great car gun. A face full of shot with a BG at your window, and the .45 if he threatens you with a gun from 8-10 feet away. Load the 410 shot first followed by the .45.

kpw · February 18th, 2008, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superhouse 15

I guess this might qualify. If you had only one shot for a BUG, .45 long Colt, no contest.

GunBroker.com guns: 3 fmj 45/.410 derringer mint nib consecutive s.n. (item: 92204244 ends: Feb-19-08 01

49 AM)

My father in law has one of those. Every shot burries the hammer into the web of my hand and the barrel points skyward. Recoil isn't bad but it draws a little blood after a dozen or so .45 rounds. The .410 shot loads are fairly mild in comparison.

Southtexas · February 19th, 2008, 03:32 AM

no offense but if you own a judge you own it because its a versatile weapon, with options, its not a good CCH/CCW but it has some good advantages for home defense, one is that it can shoot the .410 if you were going to load slugs in it why bother with such a heavy pistol? sure .45 lc as a stopper makes sense, but as others have said above compared to the 410 slug there is simply no comparison, use the pistol for what it was made for, or go and buy a .45LC pistol, 3 rounds of 410 buckshot may not get you a stop but if you need more than that you should have grabbed a better gun to start with. having said that if you really must know 45lc is going to put the hurt on you and the target, and 410 slug is going to put the hurt on your hand and not the target, it simply can not gain enough velocity to do the deed, is too light to start with and in my opinion is a waste of space in the chamber of the judge, NOW IF YOU COULD NOT GET A 45lc round, I would still avoid the slug, just my humble opinion.

February 17th, 2008, 02:04 PM	#1
bobcat35 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 591	Heard an interesting debate. Any thoughts? yesterday while looking around the guns at gander (wishing i had the money for the .50 they were selling). i overheard one of the customers and a clerk both appearant gun guys debateing wether .45 long colt or 410 slugs are better for defense. unfortunatly i have no knowledge of these two cartridges but the debate sparked my interest wich would be better for a small bug. __________________ "Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result." -Winston Churchill Every well-bred petty crook knows: the small concealable weapons always go to the far left of the place setting. -Inara, firefly

February 17th, 2008, 02:38 PM	#2
Superhouse 15 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 826	Depends If it was from a pistol like the Taurus Judge, I would lean towards the .45 Colt. Most of the .410 slugs are actually pretty light. I have a bunch of Federal and they weigh 109gr. Pretty light and who knows what performance you get from a short barrel compared to an 18" shotgun. Federals cheap .45 colt load weighs 225gr, Remington lists 225 and 250gr lead loads. There are a bunch of super high performance .45 Colt loads for hunting and such. Federal Premium Ballistics The Box O' Truth #41 - The Taurus Judge Vs. The Box O' Truth - Page 1 CORBON Hunter

February 17th, 2008, 10:57 PM	#7
Superhouse 15 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 826	"Small" BUG I guess this might qualify. If you had only one shot for a BUG, .45 long Colt, no contest. GunBroker.com guns: 3 fmj 45/.410 derringer mint nib consecutive s.n. (item: 92204244 ends: Feb-19-08 0149 AM)

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February 17th, 2008, 03:13 PM	#3
aus71383 Distinguished Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: United States Posts: 1,685	I'd go .45 LC myself. The bullet is going to be 180 grains or more at worst - likely closer to 250+ the .410 slugs are much less than that. I don't like on the Box o' Truth how he just cuts down a 3" .410 to 2.5"....that's not realistic - or safe. Just my two cents. Austin

February 17th, 2008, 03:20 PM	#4
bobcat35 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 591	tango-mike thanks for the info. __________________ "Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result." -Winston Churchill Every well-bred petty crook knows: the small concealable weapons always go to the far left of the place setting. -Inara, firefly

February 17th, 2008, 03:48 PM	#5
kpw Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: PA Posts: 657	Most .410 Foster type slugs are 1/5 oz., a little under 100 grains. Out of that short barrel, I doubt your seeing a 1000 fps. That puts it around .380 ballistics with less penetration. Shooting them into water from an 18" barrel, I got a lead ring and a couple of fragments and very little penetration. You'd probably get less deformation and a bit more penetration from the short barrel but the .45 colt loads would do much better.

February 17th, 2008, 11:09 PM	#8
Puppy Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 435	I agree. Are you sure the debate wasn't .45 vs 410 shot? Then it becomes debatable but only as to range. To me, the Judge would make a great car gun. A face full of shot with a BG at your window, and the .45 if he threatens you with a gun from 8-10 feet away. Load the 410 shot first followed by the .45.

February 19th, 2008, 03:32 AM	#10
Southtexas Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 201	no offense but if you own a judge you own it because its a versatile weapon, with options, its not a good CCH/CCW but it has some good advantages for home defense, one is that it can shoot the .410 if you were going to load slugs in it why bother with such a heavy pistol? sure .45 lc as a stopper makes sense, but as others have said above compared to the 410 slug there is simply no comparison, use the pistol for what it was made for, or go and buy a .45LC pistol, 3 rounds of 410 buckshot may not get you a stop but if you need more than that you should have grabbed a better gun to start with. having said that if you really must know 45lc is going to put the hurt on you and the target, and 410 slug is going to put the hurt on your hand and not the target, it simply can not gain enough velocity to do the deed, is too light to start with and in my opinion is a waste of space in the chamber of the judge, NOW IF YOU COULD NOT GET A 45lc round, I would still avoid the slug, just my humble opinion.