.380 vs. .38 +P - Page 2

homepcmd · March 2nd, 2008, 08:00 PM

"Stopping power" is just a unit of measurement... not a tactical philosophy

You know who said that?

Evan Marshall... who literally wrote three books on stopping power.

And you know what he carries?

A Glock 26 9mm, a .38 Scandium J frame revolver and a KT P32.

This person who posted first here is a new member. Shouldn't he get "more" than the "stopping power" claim.

His or his family's life can depend on the answers he get here.

Again... just my opinion.

aus71383 · March 2nd, 2008, 09:45 PM

A .38 Special is a lot better than a .380 ACP. The bullet weighs almost twice as much, so it will penetrate better. The recoil is nothing to worry about. An alloy J-frame .38 is not hard to shoot fast. It doesn't break your wrist and rip the gun out of your hands. It just goes "pop!" and sends a bullet downrange. Anything with a short sight radius and a small grip will be hard to aim and shoot fast with.

That's just my opinion though, worth what you paid for it.

Austin

obxned · March 3rd, 2008, 12:24 AM

Run some 38 +P through a chronograph using a snubbie and tell me how much 'stopping power' it has. Most velocity and energy figures for the .38 are measured using a 4" barrel.

bmcgilvray · March 3rd, 2008, 10:29 AM

The last Winchester +P 158 grain SWC-HP ammo (the old "FBI Load") that I chronographed through my 2-inch S&W Chief's Special clocked 925 fps. Same box yielded 992 fps from a 4-inch S&W Model 10. Of course that was in 1996 so ammo may have changed.

Of course I'm old fashioned and feel the .38 Special is perfectly satisfactory served up in a 2-inch barrel when used with bullets of decent weight whether in +P guise or not.

I kinda hate to see the .38 Special round relegated to snubbies in the eyes of modern shooters. The round is more versatile and flexible than that. It's natural home is in 4-inch "service" revolvers and 6-inch target revolvers. I most often carry a 4-inch S&W Model 10. It's more concealable than many suppose. It also is great for range or field use. Other great .38 Special revolvers that should be put to use more often are the Colt Police Positive, Official Police, Diamondback, and Officer's Model, the Smith & Wesson Model 10 M&P, Model 14 K-38 Masterpiece, and Model 15 Combat Masterpiece, and the Ruger Speed Six and Security Six in their .38 Special variations. Any of these make great range, field, and home defense choices and the models that have 4-inch barrels can be concealed quite handily.

I've had far less field experience with Texas critters with the .380 than with the .38 Special but will say that the .380 pales in comparison in my view.

Ragin Cajun · March 3rd, 2008, 02:23 PM

The 38 has a larger bullet and more powder in the case. You do the math. The 38 will deliver more Kinetic Energy then the 380. Kinetic Energy is what some refer to as "Stopping Power"

Quote:

Kinetic energy is the energy of motion. An object which has motion - whether it be vertical or horizontal motion - has kinetic energy. There are many forms of kinetic energy - vibrational (the energy due to vibrational motion), rotational (the energy due to rotational motion), and translational (the energy due to motion from one location to another). To keep matters simple, we will focus upon translational kinetic energy. The amount of translational kinetic energy (from here on, the phrase kinetic energy will refer to translational kinetic energy) which an object has depends upon two variables: the mass (m) of the object and the speed (v) of the object.

This equation reveals that the kinetic energy of an object is directly proportional to the square of its speed. That means that for a twofold increase in speed, the kinetic energy will increase by a factor of four. For a threefold increase in speed, the kinetic energy will increase by a factor of nine. And for a fourfold increase in speed, the kinetic energy will increase by a factor of sixteen. The kinetic energy is dependent upon the square of the speed. As it is often said, an equation is not merely a recipe for algebraic problem-solving, but also a guide to thinking about the relationship between quantities.

Kinetic energy is a scalar quantity; it does not have a direction. Unlike velocity, acceleration, force, and momentum, the kinetic energy of an object is completely described by magnitude alone. Like work and potential energy, the standard metric unit of measurement for kinetic energy is the Joule. As might be implied by the above equation, 1 Joule is equivalent to 1 kg*(m/s)^2.

forestranger · March 3rd, 2008, 03:46 PM

Rem 158+p lhp averaged 884fps w/274fpe out of 2" snub. Tried a number of 90gr 380 jhp out for p3at and they averaged around 850-860. Rem 102 gr 380 averaged under 800fps. Best 380 load I could find was DPX for 1020fps and 184fpe. Wet pack tested all of them and DPX was the only 380 load that came close to Rem +p 38 in destruction and penetration in wet pack. Made a believer out of me that 380 might carry easier but 38 packs more punch.

tns0038 · March 3rd, 2008, 04:12 PM

Very few 38 small frame pistols out there that are rated for +P. Even the ones that are, will give you a generous amount of recoil. Thus eliminating a rapid second shot, that I consider to be far more important then the ballistics of the round.

As others have said. Ballistic wise they are both similar, and I would advise buying the one you feel most comfortable carrying, and shooting. For me the “J” frame Smith was harder to carry concealed than the Walther PPKs. And a whole lot harder to conceal than the Kel-Tec P3AT 380.

aus71383 · March 3rd, 2008, 08:28 PM

tns0038 - that is the opposite of my experience....which just goes to show, YMMV.

Austin

RJ Stewart · March 3rd, 2008, 08:52 PM

The lightweight snubbies (which I'll never use) will rip your hand off when fired. I carry .38 special +P's in a 2 inch Ruger SP101 and it handles their recoil pretty well.

AZ Husker · March 3rd, 2008, 08:58 PM

I just did 200 rounds of Remington 130 gr MC and 50 rounds of Remington 125 gr semi-jacketed hp +P's this week in a S&W 642 centennial Airweight. No problems at all. My girlfriend shot both loads and was fine also.

March 2nd, 2008, 08:00 PM	#11
homepcmd Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 59	"Stopping power" is just a unit of measurement... not a tactical philosophy You know who said that? Evan Marshall... who literally wrote three books on stopping power. And you know what he carries? A Glock 26 9mm, a .38 Scandium J frame revolver and a KT P32. This person who posted first here is a new member. Shouldn't he get "more" than the "stopping power" claim. His or his family's life can depend on the answers he get here. Again... just my opinion. __________________ “We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm” - George Orwell

March 3rd, 2008, 12:24 AM	#13
obxned Distinguished Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: OBX, NC Posts: 1,748	Run some 38 +P through a chronograph using a snubbie and tell me how much 'stopping power' it has. Most velocity and energy figures for the .38 are measured using a 4" barrel. __________________ http://www.obxammo.com/ There is only one gun law in this country, the 2nd Amendment. All else is bureaucratic nonsense that I choose to comply with or not at my discretion. When governments make laws, they must consider the unintended consequences. Last edited by obxned; March 3rd, 2008 at 09:42 PM.

March 3rd, 2008, 08:52 PM	#19
RJ Stewart Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 47	The lightweight snubbies (which I'll never use) will rip your hand off when fired. I carry .38 special +P's in a 2 inch Ruger SP101 and it handles their recoil pretty well. __________________ Robert John Stewart, The Lost King of Scotland

March 3rd, 2008, 08:58 PM	#20
AZ Husker VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Phoenix Posts: 2,746	I just did 200 rounds of Remington 130 gr MC and 50 rounds of Remington 125 gr semi-jacketed hp +P's this week in a S&W 642 centennial Airweight. No problems at all. My girlfriend shot both loads and was fine also. __________________ Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

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March 2nd, 2008, 09:45 PM	#12
aus71383 Distinguished Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: United States Posts: 1,696	A .38 Special is a lot better than a .380 ACP. The bullet weighs almost twice as much, so it will penetrate better. The recoil is nothing to worry about. An alloy J-frame .38 is not hard to shoot fast. It doesn't break your wrist and rip the gun out of your hands. It just goes "pop!" and sends a bullet downrange. Anything with a short sight radius and a small grip will be hard to aim and shoot fast with. That's just my opinion though, worth what you paid for it. Austin

March 3rd, 2008, 10:29 AM	#14
bmcgilvray Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: North Texas Posts: 1,141	The last Winchester +P 158 grain SWC-HP ammo (the old "FBI Load") that I chronographed through my 2-inch S&W Chief's Special clocked 925 fps. Same box yielded 992 fps from a 4-inch S&W Model 10. Of course that was in 1996 so ammo may have changed. Of course I'm old fashioned and feel the .38 Special is perfectly satisfactory served up in a 2-inch barrel when used with bullets of decent weight whether in +P guise or not. I kinda hate to see the .38 Special round relegated to snubbies in the eyes of modern shooters. The round is more versatile and flexible than that. It's natural home is in 4-inch "service" revolvers and 6-inch target revolvers. I most often carry a 4-inch S&W Model 10. It's more concealable than many suppose. It also is great for range or field use. Other great .38 Special revolvers that should be put to use more often are the Colt Police Positive, Official Police, Diamondback, and Officer's Model, the Smith & Wesson Model 10 M&P, Model 14 K-38 Masterpiece, and Model 15 Combat Masterpiece, and the Ruger Speed Six and Security Six in their .38 Special variations. Any of these make great range, field, and home defense choices and the models that have 4-inch barrels can be concealed quite handily. I've had far less field experience with Texas critters with the .380 than with the .38 Special but will say that the .380 pales in comparison in my view.

March 3rd, 2008, 03:46 PM	#16
forestranger Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 173	Rem 158+p lhp averaged 884fps w/274fpe out of 2" snub. Tried a number of 90gr 380 jhp out for p3at and they averaged around 850-860. Rem 102 gr 380 averaged under 800fps. Best 380 load I could find was DPX for 1020fps and 184fpe. Wet pack tested all of them and DPX was the only 380 load that came close to Rem +p 38 in destruction and penetration in wet pack. Made a believer out of me that 380 might carry easier but 38 packs more punch.

March 3rd, 2008, 04:12 PM	#17
tns0038 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,177	Very few 38 small frame pistols out there that are rated for +P. Even the ones that are, will give you a generous amount of recoil. Thus eliminating a rapid second shot, that I consider to be far more important then the ballistics of the round. As others have said. Ballistic wise they are both similar, and I would advise buying the one you feel most comfortable carrying, and shooting. For me the “J” frame Smith was harder to carry concealed than the Walther PPKs. And a whole lot harder to conceal than the Kel-Tec P3AT 380.

March 3rd, 2008, 08:28 PM	#18
aus71383 Distinguished Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: United States Posts: 1,696	tns0038 - that is the opposite of my experience....which just goes to show, YMMV. Austin