Sticks

No, we are talking about the effectiveness in stopping a threat.

The objective is not to kill, only to stop the threat, and using the firearm only as a last resort.

For those that have had feed problems, check your chamber. My buddy was having the same problem with his CZ 40B and it turned out to be a small blemish in the topside of his chamber. It would only cycle Hordanary (sp) ammo. A thorough cleaning and it is no longer a pickey eater.

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Sticks

Curiosity was framed, poor judgment killed the cat

911 is just part of the procedure for filing paperwork

Zach and Holly

Thanks for sharing.

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Isn't carrying a gun a little overkill? Paranoid? When you need it, and don't have it, you sing a different tune.

LongRider

Perfect answer, IMO there is no doubt that a dose of 230 gr. HST out of my XD.45 compact will cause enough discomfort in any assailant that they will want to immediately cease whatever bad behaviour they are engaged in. If not there are 10 more plus the spare 13 round mag(s) that will make them stop if needed. My sincerest hope is that no one dies and the BG gets hurt just enough to make him stop and regret ever wanting to harm me or mine

I have exactly 288 rounds of 230 gr. HST through my XD.45 compact with nary a failure of any kind. The remaining 62 rounds out of the seven boxes I got from Ammunition To Go! are in my 10 round carry mag and four 13 round back up mags. No I don't pack them all but they are available if need be. Wonder if something else is going on with your XD? BTW should have gotten the 500 round option its alot cheaper.


I used carry Rangers but they are so hard to get. I started to do some research for a alternative. Than, saw the pics on the links posted at ******* Technicians from Hell Ballistics Pics and read some other research. The more I read the more I liked HST. Stick's conclusions are typical. HST expand consistently and reliably through most everything they are shot through. Rangers are a not as consistent and are a tad less effective over all IMO. Don't get me wrong Rangers are very good but HST are excellent, Remington Golden Saber are right behind HST. All three will most likely get the job done

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Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

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digitalexplr

I put about 300 rounds of HST 230gr JHP through my XD45 service without any problems.

hinkleid

I wonder if anything going on with my XD? No problems at all with the WWB FMJ target ammo. Didn't have any problems until I shot the HST.
I spoke to a rep there and was told to put at least 500 ball through it?

I should have that now or close to it. I got the Double Tap ammo today in 230 and 185 gr. Speer Gold Dot. Haven't got to test them yet, maybe this weekend.

I think we are splitting hairs on these rounds. I think a 230 gr, whether Gold Dot (Double Tap higher velocity than Speers round), the HST, or the Remington Golden Saber are all going to be about the same in effectiveness. I am just leary of those HST's now, even though I still have several. I would hate to NEED them and get a FTF issue. Wait BG let me fix this!

Sticks

Well, this thread was initially just a comparison between Federal Hydra Shocks and HST in .40 S&W. For me the HST is going to be my SD round. I have not shot any other types of SD round, and do not see a reason to. There have been enough "Official and Controlled" tests performed on the various SD rounds and for whatever reason, I prefer Federal. I saw for myself what I needed to. Enough penetration without over penetration, and even complete expansion without jacket separation (which I did see on the Hydra Shocks).

I may have the same problem with mine since I only fired one HST, but money is tight and I am not going to smoke $100 in SD loads to see if there is a problem. I have run 5 different types of ball ammo through my BE in practice (2k rounds), including some Armscor once fired reloads and have not had one single FTF, FTE, Stovepipe or any other issue. EVERY round that I have dropped the hammer on has fired, ejected some 10 feet to the right rear, and cycled the next round.

My last practice session gave me experience with "Crap, forgot to load" or "Magazine empty" that I am confident that the motor functions are going to move properly to smoothly and efficiently correct the problem. The next session will involve snap caps for a Fail to Fire simulation. I am not sure I want to intentionally damage a round to cause a FTE or Fail to Feed (maybe a spent case).

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Sticks

Curiosity was framed, poor judgment killed the cat

911 is just part of the procedure for filing paperwork

hinkleid

I totally agree with u here. HST does appear to be one of the better, or if not the BEST SD round. I truly want this round to work, and I am not in one way conferring that they are not great rounds. I will continue to test these in my XD.

My area of the problem lies in the fact that I am problems with these rounds. It might just be my XD. Say if the use of force is needed and warranted, I would hate to get 1 or 2 rounds off and have a malfunction. I would be better off with ANY round, even ball to utilize the full magazine. Not saying they WILL NOT work, but the risk is there. I fired a box, and had several issues, FTE and stovepipes (about 5 or 10% of rounds fired). So FOR ME it would make better sense to have the capacity to put 14 rounds of Gold Dots or Remington GS on target than to run the risk of using the HST (maybe a better round) and encountering problems.

hinkleid

Went out today and shot several rounds of the Double Tap and more of the HST's. No problem with any of the rounds, even the HST. May have been just a "need to break in the pistol" thing as I did not even have a single problem with the HST.

The 230 Gold Dot Doubletap is a VERY accurate round. Think they would all hurt!

LongRider

I do get that. It is one of the reasons I am slow to change carry rounds., It costs me to be willing to bet my family's life on a round's performance. After all isn't that we are doing? Betting the lives of those we love and care about most in that world that we, our weapons and ammo are as effective as possible? I want to, need to, know that my ammo works perfectly in my gun. I shoot as many of my carry rounds as I can reasonably afford. The norm is about 250 rounds after I know the pistol is broken in and free of any quirks. Even if it is fifty rounds at a time, I want to be absolutely sure there is no issues between my carry rounds and my gun. Also, as different rounds do perform differently in different guns. I want to know exactly how a round performs in my gun. Yeah it costs. It may I have to forego something else, but IMO it is worth it. Than I always practice with a like rounds i.e. 230 grain ,45 is what I carry, so I practice with 230 grain .45. If that day ever comes I want to be as familiar, comfortable and most of all confident with my guns as humanly possible. I will know I have done due diligence i.e. everything possible to be ready and beat Murphy.

+1 on both counts. After break in your XD should eat everything your feed it. I think that as long as a round feeds & fires consistently in your gun you can not go too wrong with any of the premium name brand SD rounds. The only difference may very well be purely psychological, i.e. that we are confident the ammo we are using is the best available. When it hits the fan is not the time for doubts, we will need all the confidence we can muster. That said I do think HST will hurt the most. Sticks's pics help confirm that. As does every HST test or comparison of HST with other ammo, I have seen.

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Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

Glock Arms Iranian Terrorists to Kill US soldiers

LongRider

After posting Sticks pic on a THR thread. I decided to follow Sticks fine example and I did my own tests. Using my XD.45 compact (4 inch barrel) from 15 feet into three one gallon milk jugs. I had 15 jugs for five tests. Every one of the rounds looked identical to the other. HST remains the most consistent expanding & penetrating and most accurate round. After the test I shot up a box for practice. For a total of 588 HST rounds through my XD without a single failure of any kind. 62 rounds are now loaded into my XD mags and 1 box left. So it looks like time to buy more ammo, though Brazer Brass 230 grain shoots enough like the HST to be a excellent practice round.

__________________
Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

Glock Arms Iranian Terrorists to Kill US soldiers