Ranger Talon vs. HST?

Air,Land&Sea · June 23rd, 2008, 05:18 PM

Any thoughts on 9mm 124 gr. +P Winchester Ranger Talon vs. the same in Federal HST?
Thanks.

Rob99VMI04 · June 23rd, 2008, 05:44 PM

IMHO,

Run a few boxes of each through your gun and figure out which ones function the best.

Reason: Your comparisent is really down to personal preference, both are excelent SD cartridges, and there are so closely linked that its going to come down to shot placement, and reliability of the cartridges, rather making a determination on a cartridge made by Winchester vs Federal.

ExSoldier · June 23rd, 2008, 05:50 PM

I think it's pretty much an equal proposition. I use the Winchester simply because that's the duty load for a heckuva lot law enforcement agencies, not the least of which seems to be the Texas Rangers. At least that's the word I got when I went out to the Ranger Museum in WAco a few years ago. But I get some feedback on such things from friends of mine recently retired from the Special Operations community. So that's good enough for me. Oddly though is my #1 carry choice for here in South Florida and only for use in weather where I'm not likely to find a heavy jacket needed. I carry nothing but MagSafes in my H&K P30 which is now my EDC (Every Day Carry) gun. I don't want to run the risk of the extremely rare over penetration scenario or even worse, and extremely likely the MISS I might suffer with a sequential bounce hit on an innocent bystander. I couldn't live with that. The MagSafe simply powders when it hits anything solid so there are no risks there.

Air,Land&Sea · June 23rd, 2008, 05:54 PM

Is +P generally not a benefit out of short barrels like a PM9 or does every little bit potentially help?

Rob99VMI04 · June 23rd, 2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air,Land&Sea

Is +P generally not a benefit out of short barrels like a PM9 or does every little bit potentially help?

If you can hit just as well with it as the non +P I say stay with the +P if you loose some control then stay with the regular.

dukalmighty · June 23rd, 2008, 06:18 PM

I use standard 124 grn HST in my 9mm and 230 +P in my 45's

ExSoldier · June 23rd, 2008, 06:43 PM

I once heard a similar argument in favor of a model 19 357 magnum with a 2" barrel over a 38+P. The magnum will kick like Tennessee "White Lightning" and sound like the Crack of Doom but it will generate (even with the short barrel) far more foot pounds of energy that the more sedate 38 +P but I think that one thing you have to take into account is the muzzle flash that might be blinding at night. On the up side, such a tremendous muzzle blast would cause an extreme "avulsion" of the skin if used point blank or at contact. An avulsion is like a huge RIP. So shove the gun into the bad guys gut and the blast might come out his back. That's what I call a "fight stopper!"

dukalmighty · June 23rd, 2008, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExSoldier

I once heard a similar argument in favor of a model 19 357 magnum with a 2" barrel over a 38+P. The magnum will kick like Tennessee "White Lightning" and sound like the Crack of Doom but it will generate (even with the short barrel) far more foot pounds of energy that the more sedate 38 +P but I think that one thing you have to take into account is the muzzle flash that might be blinding at night. On the up side, such a tremendous muzzle blast would cause an extreme "avulsion" of the skin if used point blank or at contact. An avulsion is like a huge RIP. So shove the gun into the bad guys gut and the blast might come out his back. That's what I call a "fight stopper!"

That is very graphic and disturbing

,I guarantee you any gun you fire into a person at point blank range will cause a lot of powder gases etc. to enter the wound cavity creating a potential for a really nasty infection if they live,but to fire that close would mean you are literally in a hand2hand situation and could possibly be disarmed or have the shot deflected before you get a shot off,besides cleaning the gun afterwards would require detail stripping and the fact you may not get the gun back for up to a year or more while it's being investigated could ruin the finish

tns0038 · June 23rd, 2008, 06:57 PM

Whichever one is cheaper. Both are fantastic defensive loads.

Glock30SF · June 23rd, 2008, 07:06 PM

From the tests I have seen the HST will expand more but penetrate less. The rangers will penetrate more with less expansion. In some tests I have seen the HST does not penetrate enough. I would go with the rangers that is my choice.

June 23rd, 2008, 05:44 PM	#2
Rob99VMI04 Distinguished Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: ABOVE is the FOOTPRINT of a common american CHICKEN Posts: 1,711	IMHO, Run a few boxes of each through your gun and figure out which ones function the best. Reason: Your comparisent is really down to personal preference, both are excelent SD cartridges, and there are so closely linked that its going to come down to shot placement, and reliability of the cartridges, rather making a determination on a cartridge made by Winchester vs Federal. __________________ "You may find me one day dead in a ditch somewhere. But by God, you'll find me in a pile of brass." - Trooper M. Padgett "When seconds count.....Cops Respond in Minutes"

June 23rd, 2008, 05:50 PM	#3
ExSoldier VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Coral Gables, FL Posts: 4,856	I think it's pretty much an equal proposition. I use the Winchester simply because that's the duty load for a heckuva lot law enforcement agencies, not the least of which seems to be the Texas Rangers. At least that's the word I got when I went out to the Ranger Museum in WAco a few years ago. But I get some feedback on such things from friends of mine recently retired from the Special Operations community. So that's good enough for me. Oddly though is my #1 carry choice for here in South Florida and only for use in weather where I'm not likely to find a heavy jacket needed. I carry nothing but MagSafes in my H&K P30 which is now my EDC (Every Day Carry) gun. I don't want to run the risk of the extremely rare over penetration scenario or even worse, and extremely likely the MISS I might suffer with a sequential bounce hit on an innocent bystander. I couldn't live with that. The MagSafe simply powders when it hits anything solid so there are no risks there. __________________ Former Infantry Captain; 20 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

June 23rd, 2008, 05:54 PM	#4
Air,Land&Sea Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: A Blue State Posts: 306	Is +P generally not a benefit out of short barrels like a PM9 or does every little bit potentially help? __________________ Freedom of speech does not excuse one from freedom of thought.

June 23rd, 2008, 06:18 PM	#6
dukalmighty VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: texas Posts: 6,390	I use standard 124 grn HST in my 9mm and 230 +P in my 45's __________________ I like Poetry,Long Walks On The Beach,And Poking Dead Things With A Stick

June 23rd, 2008, 06:43 PM	#7
ExSoldier VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Coral Gables, FL Posts: 4,856	I once heard a similar argument in favor of a model 19 357 magnum with a 2" barrel over a 38+P. The magnum will kick like Tennessee "White Lightning" and sound like the Crack of Doom but it will generate (even with the short barrel) far more foot pounds of energy that the more sedate 38 +P but I think that one thing you have to take into account is the muzzle flash that might be blinding at night. On the up side, such a tremendous muzzle blast would cause an extreme "avulsion" of the skin if used point blank or at contact. An avulsion is like a huge RIP. So shove the gun into the bad guys gut and the blast might come out his back. That's what I call a "fight stopper!" __________________ Former Infantry Captain; 20 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

June 23rd, 2008, 05:18 PM	#1
Air,Land&Sea Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: A Blue State Posts: 306	Ranger Talon vs. HST? Any thoughts on 9mm 124 gr. +P Winchester Ranger Talon vs. the same in Federal HST? Thanks. __________________ Freedom of speech does not excuse one from freedom of thought.

June 23rd, 2008, 06:57 PM	#9
tns0038 Distinguished Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,931	Whichever one is cheaper. Both are fantastic defensive loads.

June 23rd, 2008, 07:06 PM	#10
Glock30SF Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: S. FL Posts: 432	From the tests I have seen the HST will expand more but penetrate less. The rangers will penetrate more with less expansion. In some tests I have seen the HST does not penetrate enough. I would go with the rangers that is my choice. __________________ “The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.”.... Albert Einstein ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!

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