What's so good about 5.7x28mm?

NickEMT · August 11th, 2008, 04:27 PM

Hey yall. What's the deal about 5.7x28mm ammo? The FN 57 and P90 shoot it. I was looking at ballistics data and was surprised. Sure the velocity is awesome, 1800fps. But, the energy was only around 350ft/lbs. Now I understand that figures aren't everything, but still, the round just seems like it would punch right through you without transferring much energy at all.

Superhouse 15 · August 12th, 2008, 09:21 AM

The civillan ammo is mostly polymer tipped varmint bullets or a lightly constructed varmint style JHP. While I'm relatively neutral about the caliber, I don't think bullets of this design will zip on through somebody. Probably fragment pretty well as designed.

This should be good for a lively "discussion". I'll get the popcorn.

Mercalf · August 12th, 2008, 09:29 AM

That ammo will soon be unavailable to civs. It's carried by the Secret Service in P90 (FULLY AUTO), so the velocity and ft. lbs are great. It's a great little gun/round to get out of trouble quick. Recoil is next to nothing, so you can place many, many rounds in a small area - very fast. However, in the civillian version, the semi is basically dwarfed by anything else you can carry. Why not the small .308 hybrid?

It's one of those - they have it, so I want it. Sorta deals. Plus, what's cooler than a p90??

Again though, it's going to be taken off the civillian market by as early as 2009 from what my g'smiths say.

NickEMT · August 12th, 2008, 10:07 AM

If the USSS uses it, it must be good. The USSS carries .357 SIG as I do after all hehehe. Taken off the market you say? Remind me not to buy a 57 or P90. I never thought of the differences between the LE load and the civ load. Must be a trip to fire in a P90!

ripley16 · August 12th, 2008, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercalf

That ammo will soon be unavailable to civs.

I doubt that the ammo will be unavailable. I'd be interested in where you got that information. The only 5.7 ammo that is not sold is the military and LE only, armour piercing rounds. It is bonded and thus illegal to sell to civilians. Otherwise the civilian rounds are available now and probably will be for many years to come.

Quote:

Hey yall. What's the deal about 5.7x28mm ammo? The FN 57 and P90 shoot it. I was looking at ballistics data and was surprised. Sure the velocity is awesome, 1800fps. But, the energy was only around 350ft/lbs. Now I understand that figures aren't everything, but still, the round just seems like it would punch right through you without transferring much energy at all.

Only 350 ft/lbs? That's enough to ruin your day. As mentioned the lure of the round is the lack of recoil, ease of multiple rounds on target, speed, and lack of penetration, useful in a HD situation. The secret service is of course interested in defeating someone with body armour, barriers, etc., as well as ease of concealment. That's why they get the good ammo and we don't. It's tough walking around with a .50 Barrett under your arm all day. A PS90 is much easier.

As far as over penetration, you may be interested in these ballistic gell tests. They show remarkable lack of over penetration.

Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing

rocky · August 12th, 2008, 02:53 PM

The 5.7 round was designed for support military troops to carry with the idea of body armor penetration(so I read). As an idea CCW round? Doesn't seem to be. I would be concerned with over penetration and less tissue damage than a larger diameter caliber bullet.

ripley16 · August 12th, 2008, 04:42 PM

[Try this link to gell test
SS195 FMJ and SS197 ballistic tip (bare and heavy clothing)

Quote:

I would be concerned with over penetration and less tissue damage than a larger diameter caliber bullet.

rocky,
What data are you looking at?

Cuda66 · August 12th, 2008, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickEMT

Hey yall. What's the deal about 5.7x28mm ammo? The FN 57 and P90 shoot it. I was looking at ballistics data and was surprised. Sure the velocity is awesome, 1800fps. But, the energy was only around 350ft/lbs. Now I understand that figures aren't everything, but still, the round just seems like it would punch right through you without transferring much energy at all.

Personally...without the LEO/M AP ammo, I think it's overrated.

From what I understand, the civvie rounds coming out of a pistol are about the equivalent of .22WMR. Not a legendary manstopper by any stretch of the imagination.

20 round mag (in the pistol)? Big deal. I can get 19 rounds of 9mm in a glock mag with a extender...and rumor has it that the next XD-M will be a 20-shot 9mm (I know I can stuff 20 rounds--21 with some force--into a 16-shot .40 cal XD-M mag).

Add on the ammo is ridiculously expensive, and hard to find...looks like a taktikool toy to me.

bnielsonak47 · August 12th, 2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickEMT

If the USSS uses it, it must be good. The USSS carries .357 SIG as I do after all hehehe. Taken off the market you say? Remind me not to buy a 57 or P90. I never thought of the differences between the LE load and the civ load. Must be a trip to fire in a P90!

I male always makes me wonder when they post hehehe, simply put hehehe is for girls. oh and the 5.7 is one crappy round

Mercalf · August 12th, 2008, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ripley16

I doubt that the ammo will be unavailable. I'd be interested in where you got that information. The only 5.7 ammo that is not sold is the military and LE only, armour piercing rounds. It is bonded and thus illegal to sell to civilians. Otherwise the civilian rounds are available now and probably will be for many years to come.

Only 350 ft/lbs? That's enough to ruin your day. As mentioned the lure of the round is the lack of recoil, ease of multiple rounds on target, speed, and lack of penetration, useful in a HD situation. The secret service is of course interested in defeating someone with body armour, barriers, etc., as well as ease of concealment. That's why they get the good ammo and we don't. It's tough walking around with a .50 Barrett under your arm all day. A PS90 is much easier.

As far as over penetration, you may be interested in these ballistic gell tests. They show remarkable lack of over penetration.

Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing

My old trustworthy smith told me. If that's not convincing - just think of sheer logic. There are TOO many rounds out there in semi that out perform it. It would be downright...can I say dumb? to buy that P90 in a SEMI, for 2 grand, then spend a rediculous amount on ammo for it. There are just TOO many better options out there for a semi, small, compact, man-stopping, tactical, cool, black, new-age, RIFLE.

As for that pistol? It's been around for AGES in the Army. It was originally contracted to them and I'm not sure if it stuck or not, but it's HORRIBLE. Follow-up accuracy on the pistol was downright bad. Like someone said, if it's capacity - stick with a 9mm. If it's crazy balistics, go with the .45 +p's.

August 11th, 2008, 04:27 PM	#1
NickEMT Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: North Las Vegas Posts: 78	What's so good about 5.7x28mm? Hey yall. What's the deal about 5.7x28mm ammo? The FN 57 and P90 shoot it. I was looking at ballistics data and was surprised. Sure the velocity is awesome, 1800fps. But, the energy was only around 350ft/lbs. Now I understand that figures aren't everything, but still, the round just seems like it would punch right through you without transferring much energy at all. Last edited by NickEMT; August 11th, 2008 at 04:29 PM. Reason: typo

August 12th, 2008, 09:21 AM	#2
Superhouse 15 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 909	FN The civillan ammo is mostly polymer tipped varmint bullets or a lightly constructed varmint style JHP. While I'm relatively neutral about the caliber, I don't think bullets of this design will zip on through somebody. Probably fragment pretty well as designed. This should be good for a lively "discussion". I'll get the popcorn.

August 12th, 2008, 09:29 AM	#3
Mercalf Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Central Florida Posts: 199	That ammo will soon be unavailable to civs. It's carried by the Secret Service in P90 (FULLY AUTO), so the velocity and ft. lbs are great. It's a great little gun/round to get out of trouble quick. Recoil is next to nothing, so you can place many, many rounds in a small area - very fast. However, in the civillian version, the semi is basically dwarfed by anything else you can carry. Why not the small .308 hybrid? It's one of those - they have it, so I want it. Sorta deals. Plus, what's cooler than a p90?? Again though, it's going to be taken off the civillian market by as early as 2009 from what my g'smiths say. __________________ Some people don't deserve saving. ....the water is almost at a boil

August 12th, 2008, 02:53 PM	#6
rocky Senior Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MI Posts: 11,767	The 5.7 round was designed for support military troops to carry with the idea of body armor penetration(so I read). As an idea CCW round? Doesn't seem to be. I would be concerned with over penetration and less tissue damage than a larger diameter caliber bullet. __________________ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson Nemo Me Impune Lacesset Link to my kydex builds:http://rocknloadkydex.blogspot.com/

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August 12th, 2008, 10:07 AM	#4
NickEMT Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: North Las Vegas Posts: 78	If the USSS uses it, it must be good. The USSS carries .357 SIG as I do after all hehehe. Taken off the market you say? Remind me not to buy a 57 or P90. I never thought of the differences between the LE load and the civ load. Must be a trip to fire in a P90!