Speer Gold Dot vs Federal HST LE - Page 3

mjv · May 7th, 2009, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REDTAIL

The way things are in the JHP ammo market shortage today I will take whatever that I can find.

Amen!!!

usmc3169 · May 7th, 2009, 02:46 AM

I like the Gold Dots best... if for nothing else than the fact that it is obvious by looking at them that they were put together very well. Clean edges and symetrical petals pre shooting.

They are always in the top end of bullet reviews for reliability. But I really dont think you can go wrong with any premium hollow point.

user · May 7th, 2009, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsonabq

ATK... I'm afraid you guys got me there. Who/what are they? And, where can I find their tests?

Alliant Techsystems, Inc., stock symbol, "ATK", owns & manufactures Federal, Speer, CCI, Blazer, and American Eagle brands. They basically do everything having to do with propellants, manage manufacturing facilities for the Army, make rocket motors for NASA, etc. Currently trading at $86 or so, and been on the rise for the past month.

ATK - Investor Information - Interactive Stock Chart

griz78 · May 7th, 2009, 12:05 PM

If you have a few extra rounds of whatever you're intrested in, you can do your own testing and decide for yourself. I think you're gonna be pleased with any of the HST, Gold Dot, or Ranger.

EdTeach · May 7th, 2009, 02:14 PM

I use 124gr +P in 9mm, and I use 135gr+P in my 2" snub.Great SD round in both.

BikerRN · May 7th, 2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by concealed

I use Glock 26, and was wondering if anyone has experience, test results, problems, or recommendations for the 9mm Federal HST LE +P vs the 9mm Speer Gold DOt for short barrell.

In searching other forums, I hear some negatives about the Federal not retaining petals in test, particularly the 124 gr. Have not heard much bad about the Speer GD!

The Gold Dot is a proven and effective round, and so is the HST.

I do not have copies of test results handy, but I think they can be located on the Federal L.E. Ammunition website. Personally, once you pick a good round I would worry more about learning to place that round where it would do the most good over the small % difference between the two rounds and their terminal effectiveness.

THER IS NO MAGIC BULLET!

Select a good round that you can locate lots of and stockpile it deep. I personally like the Federal 9BPLE load in 9mm because I can get lots and lots of it.

It might be bettered by 1% - 7% by other 9mm rounds. That small of a difference is not worth considering IMHO.

Trying to see how many angels can dance on the head of a pin is fruitless folly IMHO. That's what worrying over 1% is. There is no magic bullet. It is up to the shooter to place the rounds where they need to go.

Here's what I do when selecting ammunition:

Buy 250 Rounds for Initial Test and Carry
Buy/Shoot Minimum of 50 Rounds/Month of that ammo

That means you need 550 Rounds/Year after the initial 250. It does you no good if you have the latest and greatest superuberduperfeloncritterstopper if you can't practice with it or get resupplied with it. Just because an ammunition is older technology doesn't mean it won't work. The best felon stopping round, and the one that all are compared to is the .357 Magnum 125 Grain JHP, and the 9BPLE load did pretty good in it's day when it was "new technology" too.

In fact I believe some agencies and departments still issue it. It is now a "Training Round" according to Federal. Dekalb County doesn't have a problem with it, and niether do I.

OK, sorry for the long post. I just woke up and I'm on a roll. Good luck in your ammo selection and practice a lot.

Biker

llongshot · May 7th, 2009, 03:20 PM

I have access to a .45 caliber 200 grain Gold Dot round loaded by CNC. Took a dozen or so gallon jugs to my local (private) range and filled them with water as an initial test. Four one gallon jugs lined up one after the other on a bench shot at about 15 yards yielded these results. The hollow point expanded perfectly and penetrated to the seam between the third and fourth jug (18 inches). The impact through the 18 inches of penetration pushed the fourth jug back enough to move it off the bench (32 pounds of water moved 4 to 6 inches). Then picked up a road killed deer and put a couple of rounds through the rib cage and rear hind quarters. The 200 grain Gold Dot followed all the hollow point results I've gotten in other tests with everything from .22 to 12 ga. saboted shotgun. If a good quality hollow point is used and no bone is encountered a picture perfect flower petal with little or no loss of mass is usual. With some of the hollow points the jacket and lead core tend to separate whether bone is encountered or not. The introduction of bone (rib or hip) has a tendency to fold the petals of the flower back at the portion of the hollowpoint where the contact is made and peel some of the lead core off. To clarify that last sentence if the entire bullet went through the bone the entire hollow point was folded back. If only one or two petals contacted then they were the only petals effected. The thickness of the bone determined the amount of petal deformation. Even went so far as to go to the local thrift store and purchase a good used heavy jacket and drape it over the carcass to determine the effect. Penetration was deep enough in all areas of the deer to satisy me that any human shot with the 200 grain Gold Dot at 10 to 20 yards under any of the above circumstances is going to undergo a serious change in phisical and psycological attitude. I have not done this with any of your other choices so I can't vouch for them. I can, however, tell you that I wouldn't have any problem staking my life on the performance on the Gold Dot ammo I used.

Rexster · May 7th, 2009, 05:37 PM

As long as the main part of the bullet holds together, I don't mind if petals shear off to create secondary wound channels. The last time I used a handgun as a remote-control drill, it was a Federal 125-grain JHP from a .357 sixgun. There were pieces of copper bullet jacket in the blood plume on the pavement behind the bad guy's position, though the main part of the bullet stayed on its path, and was still inside him. The stuck-by-lightning effect of that shot was decisive. If I had a time machine, I would not go back to that moment and hand myself an up-to-date cartridge with a bonded bullet.

I am not saying that bonded bullets are a bad thing, but at that moment in time, in the summer of 1993, I did not need a bonded bullet. The Federal 125-grain JHP ruled the streets back then, and it was famous for secondary missiles. (The Remington 125-grain load, with its scalloped jacket mouth, was even more famous for secondary missiles, IIRC, and worked just as well.)

My point is, that if handed a 9mm pistol, and told I had to use it for self-defense, I would accept either of the mentioned loads, and feel the same about them. I use Gold Dots in my duty pistols presently, because it is indeed good stuff, but also because it is available for a really good price from a local LE distributor. I must, however use .40 ammo at work, and to keep things simple, I use my duty SIGs for CC, too, so my comments are general, not about 9mm in particular.

Rexster · May 7th, 2009, 05:47 PM

FWIW, I also buy Gold Dots for fill my backup/utility .357 sixguns and carbines these days, too. It has been a very long time since I saw Federal Classic silver-box 125-grain JHPs.

Glock30SF · May 7th, 2009, 05:49 PM

9mm Perfomance tests - Threat Focused Forums

May 7th, 2009, 02:46 AM	#22
usmc3169 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 493	I like the Gold Dots best... if for nothing else than the fact that it is obvious by looking at them that they were put together very well. Clean edges and symetrical petals pre shooting. They are always in the top end of bullet reviews for reliability. But I really dont think you can go wrong with any premium hollow point. __________________ S&W M&P340CT, Glock 22, Springfield XDm, SIG Sauer P229 Elite "For those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know". Unknown Marine, Khe Sanh

May 7th, 2009, 12:05 PM	#24
griz78 New Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Cajun Country Posts: 13	If you have a few extra rounds of whatever you're intrested in, you can do your own testing and decide for yourself. I think you're gonna be pleased with any of the HST, Gold Dot, or Ranger. __________________ When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.

May 7th, 2009, 02:14 PM	#25
EdTeach New Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kettering,Ohio Posts: 3	Never had a problem with Gold Dots I use 124gr +P in 9mm, and I use 135gr+P in my 2" snub.Great SD round in both.

May 7th, 2009, 05:49 PM	#30
Glock30SF Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: S. FL Posts: 432	9mm Perfomance tests - Threat Focused Forums __________________ “The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.”.... Albert Einstein ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!

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May 7th, 2009, 03:20 PM	#27
llongshot Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Deep Southern Illinois Posts: 277	I have access to a .45 caliber 200 grain Gold Dot round loaded by CNC. Took a dozen or so gallon jugs to my local (private) range and filled them with water as an initial test. Four one gallon jugs lined up one after the other on a bench shot at about 15 yards yielded these results. The hollow point expanded perfectly and penetrated to the seam between the third and fourth jug (18 inches). The impact through the 18 inches of penetration pushed the fourth jug back enough to move it off the bench (32 pounds of water moved 4 to 6 inches). Then picked up a road killed deer and put a couple of rounds through the rib cage and rear hind quarters. The 200 grain Gold Dot followed all the hollow point results I've gotten in other tests with everything from .22 to 12 ga. saboted shotgun. If a good quality hollow point is used and no bone is encountered a picture perfect flower petal with little or no loss of mass is usual. With some of the hollow points the jacket and lead core tend to separate whether bone is encountered or not. The introduction of bone (rib or hip) has a tendency to fold the petals of the flower back at the portion of the hollowpoint where the contact is made and peel some of the lead core off. To clarify that last sentence if the entire bullet went through the bone the entire hollow point was folded back. If only one or two petals contacted then they were the only petals effected. The thickness of the bone determined the amount of petal deformation. Even went so far as to go to the local thrift store and purchase a good used heavy jacket and drape it over the carcass to determine the effect. Penetration was deep enough in all areas of the deer to satisy me that any human shot with the 200 grain Gold Dot at 10 to 20 yards under any of the above circumstances is going to undergo a serious change in phisical and psycological attitude. I have not done this with any of your other choices so I can't vouch for them. I can, however, tell you that I wouldn't have any problem staking my life on the performance on the Gold Dot ammo I used.

May 7th, 2009, 05:37 PM	#28
Rexster Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: SE Texas Posts: 895	As long as the main part of the bullet holds together, I don't mind if petals shear off to create secondary wound channels. The last time I used a handgun as a remote-control drill, it was a Federal 125-grain JHP from a .357 sixgun. There were pieces of copper bullet jacket in the blood plume on the pavement behind the bad guy's position, though the main part of the bullet stayed on its path, and was still inside him. The stuck-by-lightning effect of that shot was decisive. If I had a time machine, I would not go back to that moment and hand myself an up-to-date cartridge with a bonded bullet. I am not saying that bonded bullets are a bad thing, but at that moment in time, in the summer of 1993, I did not need a bonded bullet. The Federal 125-grain JHP ruled the streets back then, and it was famous for secondary missiles. (The Remington 125-grain load, with its scalloped jacket mouth, was even more famous for secondary missiles, IIRC, and worked just as well.) My point is, that if handed a 9mm pistol, and told I had to use it for self-defense, I would accept either of the mentioned loads, and feel the same about them. I use Gold Dots in my duty pistols presently, because it is indeed good stuff, but also because it is available for a really good price from a local LE distributor. I must, however use .40 ammo at work, and to keep things simple, I use my duty SIGs for CC, too, so my comments are general, not about 9mm in particular.

May 7th, 2009, 05:47 PM	#29
Rexster Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: SE Texas Posts: 895	FWIW, I also buy Gold Dots for fill my backup/utility .357 sixguns and carbines these days, too. It has been a very long time since I saw Federal Classic silver-box 125-grain JHPs.