RBCD Ammo controversy - Page 2

shooterX · July 8th, 2009, 07:46 PM

Sorry gues it was only one picture. Ha

10thmtn · July 8th, 2009, 08:01 PM

ShooterX - Thanks for the sleuthing. That tells me all I need to know. The folks at RBCD are a bunch of lying snake oil salesmen. Blended metal my

Hope somebody sues them into oblivion.

shooterX · July 8th, 2009, 08:17 PM

Your welcome 10thmtn, wish I hadn't bought this

, oh well.

10thmtn · July 8th, 2009, 08:54 PM

Just in case there are any more believers in this stuff out there - did you happen to cut open the plastic ball? Any "blended metal" hiding in there?

shooterX · July 8th, 2009, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10thmtn

Just in case there are any more believers in this stuff out there - did you happen to cut open the plastic ball? Any "blended metal" hiding in there?

No I didn't, but I think we're safe assuming there ien't.

shooterX · July 9th, 2009, 09:51 AM

If you search the threads, seems RBCD has been discussed as far back as '05. ExSoldier was using some of it, anyone else still using this stuff? Do you trust it?

Randy · July 9th, 2009, 10:23 AM

Total marketing nonsense.

Randy

HowardCohodas · July 9th, 2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shooterX

If you search the threads, seems RBCD has been discussed as far back as '05. ExSoldier was using some of it, anyone else still using this stuff? Do you trust it?

We seem to have come full circle. It seems clear that any relation to a common understanding of the definition of "blended metal technology" and the construction of the RBCD bullet is marketing hyperbole at best and a terrible deception at worst. So what? What does that have to do with actual performance? Most of what I buy seems to be promoted this way on all of the media I'm exposed to. And, as a frequent "early adopter," I'm more often than not, disappointed by actual performance.

Trust this ammo?... The Florida LE department does. Why shouldn't we? What do we know that they don't know, or vice versa?

Frankly, I was inclined to dismiss this bullet from further consideration until this LE department endorsement. Now, I'm inclined to dig deeper than just the "conventional wisdom," since the conventional wisdom seems unable to answer this or the following questions.

Author's observation of damage?... What accounts for the profoundly different damage profiles of these bullets verses conventional HP? Is the reported damage, as implied, more likely to "stop" the assailant?

What accounts for the inability of standard tissue simulant to predict the tissue damage observed?

Blackeagle · July 9th, 2009, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HowardCohodas

What accounts for the profoundly different damage profiles of these bullets verses conventional HP?

Velocity. When you strip away all the "blended metal" BS, the RBCD pistol ammo is just a very lightweight, high velocity load. 60 grain 9mm, 77 grain .40, and 90 grain .45, all going around 2000fps. RCBD is not the first company to try this (which is probably why their marketing is so misleading). The characteristics of lightweight, high velocity pistol bullets are well known: they produce large but relatively shallow wounds. They look nasty, and can, eventually, be lethal, but they don't do as good a job of incapacitating an assailant as a deeper penetrating hollowpoint will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HowardCohodas

Is the reported damage, as implied, more likely to "stop" the assailant?

No, they are much less likely to immediately stop an assailant.

Randy · July 9th, 2009, 11:31 AM

I didn't see the post claiming that a LE department is using the ammo so these questions may have already been addressed. Who made the claim? Someone from the company? Someone claiming to be from the actual department? Just wondering how the claim was verified.

I understand the rationale that "if a police department uses it, it *must* be good" but that doesn't necessarily have any basis in fact.

As for police departments and the ammo (or any equipment) they use....

Some departments hire independent outside testing organizations and/or consultants who specialize in the area of interest.

Some departments conduct their own testing and that can range anywhere between the most rigid scientific and exhaustive research and performance testing you can imagine to an officer shooting it through water-filled jugs or clods of dirt in his backyard.

Some departments select their ammo solely because another department selected it, regardless if the other department did any testing.

Randy

July 8th, 2009, 08:01 PM	#12
10thmtn Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Posts: 659	ShooterX - Thanks for the sleuthing. That tells me all I need to know. The folks at RBCD are a bunch of lying snake oil salesmen. Blended metal my Hope somebody sues them into oblivion. __________________ The People ARE the Militia, and have a DUTY (not just a right) to be both armed and proficient in the use of said arms. Ex-Army officer; Hurricane Andrew Relief, FL, 1992; Operation Restore Hope, Somalia, 1993 NRA Life Member; Range Safety Officer Glock 26, CT Laserguard, Smartcarry

July 8th, 2009, 08:54 PM	#14
10thmtn Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Posts: 659	Just in case there are any more believers in this stuff out there - did you happen to cut open the plastic ball? Any "blended metal" hiding in there? __________________ The People ARE the Militia, and have a DUTY (not just a right) to be both armed and proficient in the use of said arms. Ex-Army officer; Hurricane Andrew Relief, FL, 1992; Operation Restore Hope, Somalia, 1993 NRA Life Member; Range Safety Officer Glock 26, CT Laserguard, Smartcarry

July 9th, 2009, 10:23 AM	#17
Randy Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Staunton, Va. Posts: 302	Total marketing nonsense. Randy __________________ Defensive Training Concepts, Inc. Staunton, Va.

July 9th, 2009, 11:31 AM	#20
Randy Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Staunton, Va. Posts: 302	I didn't see the post claiming that a LE department is using the ammo so these questions may have already been addressed. Who made the claim? Someone from the company? Someone claiming to be from the actual department? Just wondering how the claim was verified. I understand the rationale that "if a police department uses it, it must be good" but that doesn't necessarily have any basis in fact. As for police departments and the ammo (or any equipment) they use.... Some departments hire independent outside testing organizations and/or consultants who specialize in the area of interest. Some departments conduct their own testing and that can range anywhere between the most rigid scientific and exhaustive research and performance testing you can imagine to an officer shooting it through water-filled jugs or clods of dirt in his backyard. Some departments select their ammo solely because another department selected it, regardless if the other department did any testing. Randy __________________ Defensive Training Concepts, Inc. Staunton, Va.

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July 8th, 2009, 07:46 PM	#11
shooterX Distinguished Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,563	Sorry gues it was only one picture. Ha

July 8th, 2009, 08:17 PM	#13
shooterX Distinguished Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,563	Your welcome 10thmtn, wish I hadn't bought this , oh well.

July 9th, 2009, 09:51 AM	#16
shooterX Distinguished Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,563	If you search the threads, seems RBCD has been discussed as far back as '05. ExSoldier was using some of it, anyone else still using this stuff? Do you trust it?