TonyW

Nice article and the pics definitely help. Thanks!

__________________
There can be no proper relationship between one who is armed and one who is not; nor is it reasonable to expect that one who is armed will voluntarily obey one who is not, or that the latter will feel secure among servants who are armed. The Prince, Niccolo Machiavelli

sixgun

Definatly an interesting piece on the old caliber debate. Thanks for posting the article. Have a great day sixgun:

scratchy wilson

Seem to recall reading somewhere that the .44 Walker was the most powerful hangun until the 357Magnum came along?

Joshua M. Smith

Hi Scratchy,

I really don't know... but it would be most interesting to look into. I think that the .45 Colt would have been more powerful however. Original loading was 250gr@ ~1000fps, later reduced for the military to 800fps or so.

Josh <><

__________________
Is it better to live by a corrupt society's standards rather than face persecution for not doing the same? This is the dilemma we now face. We must hold fast to our convictions as we confront this dilemma. Knowing one's self goes a long way in the crisis. - Me

H&A Firearms Board

OD

Hmm, I've been into Colt's for some little time now and a past member of the Colt Collector's Association, I've never heard of a .40 cal Patterson. I have heard of them in .28, .31, .34, and .36 caliber.

__________________
OD
"Slow down, you'll get a more harmonious outcome...."
--------------------------------------------
"The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." - Jeff Cooper

Omni

In 1873 3 new cartridges were developed that went on to become extremely popular: .45 long Colt, 44-40 and 45-70.

__________________
"Courage is rightly esteemed the first of human qualities... because it is the quality which guarantees all others." -- Winston Churchill

rstickle

Great little history lesson, thanks!

__________________
Rick

EOD - Initial success or total failure

SammyIamToday

Pretty good stuff. Nice thread! I never realized how much difference was between those loads and the loads of today.

OD

It was, you could get nearly 60grs of black in the chambers of the Walker, 40grs in the original balloon-head case of the .45 Colt.

__________________
OD
"Slow down, you'll get a more harmonious outcome...."
--------------------------------------------
"The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." - Jeff Cooper

Snowshoes

TAFFIN TESTS: THE .38-40 (.38WCF)

...JOHN TAFFIN

The .38 Winchester Centerfire first saw the light of day chambered in the Winchester '73 along with the .32 Winchester Centerfire and .44 Winchester Centerfire. If these nomenclatures do not sound real familiar, it is probably because they are all better known by their `short' names, .38-40, .32-20, and .44-40. The first two digit number represents the caliber and the second pair is the number of grains of black powder used in the original loadings.

At the same time that Winchester was chambering "The Gun That Won The West" in these three rifle cartridges, Colt was introducing the Single Action Army in .45 Colt. Since all three cartridges were approximately the same length as the the .45 Colt, and also less powerful as the .45 Colt also carried 40 grains of black powder, it was only natural for Colt to chamber their Single Action Army (Frontier, Peacemaker, Hog Leg) in these three "rifle" cartridges. The .38-40 was eclipsed in sales in the SAA only by the .45 Colt and .44-40, accounting for approximately 50,000 of the First Generation Single Actions from 1873 to 1941. Total production of all calibers (more than thirty) was 356,000 plus.

The .38-40 is a .44-40 necked down, which is basically a .45 necked down to .44 caliber, and perfectly good .38-40 brass can be made from .44-40 brass with properly designed sizing dies as offered by RCBS. The standard .38-40 sizing die does not push the shoulder back far enough, however, using the RCBS trim die and extended shell holder, .44-40's are instantly transformed into .38-40's.

The .38-40 was also offered in the Colt DA Frontier and New Service, the Smith & Wesson Single Action, Double Action Frontier, and Triplelock, the Merwin & Hulbert, and is now being offered in both Single Action and Bisley replicas from Italy. After 50 years of being dead and buried as far as American Manufacturers were concerned, the .38-40 is once again being offered by Buckeye Sports in the Ruger Blackhawk Convertible supplied with two cylinders, one for the aged .38-40 and the other for the modern up-to-date 10MM.

__________________
"You have enemies ? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life" Winston Churchill

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their use" Galileo Galilei