9mm Defense Ammo Advice - Page 2

Cuda66 · August 27th, 2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmb

there are very long threads with this info, but I am happy to state what I used and what I have read. I use 115 xtp in my PF9 and 124 gold dots (not +p) in my P89. Mas Ayoob says anything over 125 grains in 9mm is not as effective and cites many agencies who have dropped the 147, i beleive the findings with these particular rounds in real world shootings show the 124 grain to be the best penetrator and expander. I have no personal experience with 147's.

Those are with the older 147gr designs; the newer ones are designed to open at lower velocities.

Majorlk · August 27th, 2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PastorPack

+1 on Golden Saber.

I may be wrong, but I think the Hornady Critical Defense only comes in +P...can anyone comfirm this?

According to the article in the September AR, that's correct.

And it's only made in .380, .38 and 9mm.

tns0038 · August 27th, 2009, 04:30 PM

Back in the early 90’s, I carried a Glock 19, and the unit I worked for issued Hydro Shok in 124 gr. I don’t know if it was +P+ or +P but it said LEO only.

And was told at the time, it was the best of the best. Today I run 127 gr. +P+ Winchester Talons in the home defense G17, and for my carry G26 I run +P Hydro Shok 124 gr.

Selecting the Duty Weapon--Is Caliber the Key?
Is a good column on actual shootings and the effectiveness of the bullets used.

If I was going to run a non +P bullet, I’d run Hydro Shok 124 gr. or 147 gr. or Cor Bon 115 gr.

AS others of have said, make sure you shoot a bunch and see what cycles in your weapon flawlessly… and when you do find a round you like, by several boxes and shot it at least 100 times though your pistol before you consider it safe for use.

gumaro · August 27th, 2009, 04:51 PM

The Hornady Critical Defense FTX in 9mm 115gr are not +P. I believe the .380 and .38 are, but not sure.

Amend2 · August 27th, 2009, 05:37 PM

Here's another vote for the Golden Saber standard pressure ammo. I am also a fan of the Federal Classic 115 gr. JHP (the 9BP load), as it functions well in finicky pistols.

Gunsmoke16 · August 27th, 2009, 06:55 PM

It will cycle better with the lighter weight bullets. The 147grn actually jams in most short-barrel handguns due to not enough "blow-back" to cycle the next
round from the weight of this behemoth exiting the barrel. I've shot most 9mm ammo over the years. I prefer Hornady for self defense. Their only claim is "We make large, open, fatal wound cavaties!" It is custom loaded also, so less chance of it "not" firing when needed most. I would probably recommend the Hornady Critical Defense Ammo as it is specifically made for self defense (shooting through clothing layers & expanding properly, whereas most others just clog and act like a roundball, causing little damage. It has a rubber/nylon tip guard that allows it to expand properly and makes it quite deadly). Usually the lightest weight bullet moving at high speed, provided it expands correctly, creates the most damaging wound cavity (based on what I've seen with ballastic jello tests. The Cor-Bon, I believe it uses the Speer Gold Dot bullet with different powder package vs Speer's Gold Dot Ammo. It's probably little hotter (have used it as well). Federal ammo works decently, but have saw some tests with .45 that would preclude me from carrying it for defense. It is stopped by bone and will not open/penetrate correctly. The Hornady (in .45ACP) opens up about size of a quarter with barbs that look very similar to the old Winchester Black Talon, in a starfish look that cuts a ragged, nasty pathway, punching right through bone, retaining almost 100% of itself. If you get a center mass hit with the Hornady load, it's game over for the bad guy. For practice I like the Winchester (Walmart in red, white, blue box) roundball cheap ammo and the much superior Sellior & Bellot, which is sealed for wet-weather environments and suprisingly cheap. I have a friend that owned a 5906 (Stainless Slide, Aluminum frame-looks similar to yours) and he fired about 500 rounds of German Hertinburger ammo through it, which is +P+ rated & designed for submachine guns. It cracked his frame rails (which are aluminum). I would shoot regular practice ammo and before leaving the range, maybe fire just few +P or whatever you are going to carry for defense, so you're comfortable with what it feels like. Just know, it will shorten the life of the gun and eventually even if it doesn't crack the frame rails, you might have to peen them back into specs where they stretched a bit and caused it not to be accurate anymore (incomplete lock-up of barrel/slide assembly=wobbly barrel). Aguillar Ammo out of Mexico has a nasty little round as well that's all aluminum bullet that's scored to fold back. It's probably just under +P rated, but with the light weight and powder package, does 1657 fps out of a .45ACP....burns clean, light recoil and hits like a mule. Probably be around 2000fps out of a 9mm. Nasty! Also, Compensated guns are finicky on ammo as well and can be unpredicatable...so if you have one of these, start with the 90-115 grain bullet & work up toward the 124 to see what it likes feeding the best. You can sometimes change springs if you know you must continually shoot hot loads. An old 1911A1 .45 caliber has many options for this, along with shock-buffs that are nylon bushings that protect the frame/slide from damage. Most Remington ammo I have found totally unreliable in any Ruger...and try not to use the stuff anymore. The UMC (Remington in yellow box sold at Walmart) won't hit the broad-side of a barn even if you're right next to the thing. It's horribly inaccurate and skunks up the gun so bad you have to use Gun Scrubber (I use automotive carberator & choke cleaner) just to get the powder fouling out. Hope this helps. Ask the rangemasters at your local range as well. They almost always rent/shoot guns & know people who reload & experiment with all the new ammo. Good source of knowledge and a great way to pick up equipment or sell your unwanted stuff...do they have a bulletin board? Happy shooting.

Majorlk · August 27th, 2009, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gumaro

The Hornady Critical Defense FTX in 9mm 115gr are not +P. I believe the .380 and .38 are, but not sure.

I rechecked the article in AR. The .38 Special is listed as +P: 1033 fps / 261 ft lbs for a 110 gr bullet.

The 9mm isn't listed as +P (my mistake in reading the chart in the first place). The specs are 1123 fps / 322 ft lbs for a 115 gr bullet.

Sorry for the initial wrong information.

jjkjr · August 27th, 2009, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gumaro

The Hornady Critical Defense FTX in 9mm 115gr are not +P. I believe the .380 and .38 are, but not sure.

thats the way i understood the article........ that the ftx 9 mm lugar 115gr is NOT +P.

if i am misunderstanding this, someone could explain.

Cuda66 · August 27th, 2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunsmoke16

It will cycle better with the lighter weight bullets. The 147grn actually jams in most short-barrel handguns due to not enough "blow-back" to cycle the next
round from the weight of this behemoth exiting the barrel. >>SNIP<<

Huh. That's interesting; I probably fired a couple thousand rounds of 9mm 147 grn ammo out of a G26, and never had a problem...

So has a buddy of mine through his G26, as well.

Not buying that one, sorry.

GoldenSaber · August 27th, 2009, 11:15 PM

Hornady Critical Defense. GREAT STUFF!

August 27th, 2009, 05:37 PM	#15
Amend2 Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: East Providence, RI Posts: 80	9x19 Here's another vote for the Golden Saber standard pressure ammo. I am also a fan of the Federal Classic 115 gr. JHP (the 9BP load), as it functions well in finicky pistols. __________________ A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

August 27th, 2009, 11:15 PM	#20
GoldenSaber Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 298	Hornady Critical Defense. GREAT STUFF! __________________ __________________________ Does My Wallet Make Me Look Fat? It shouldn't because Obama is taking all my money.

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August 27th, 2009, 04:30 PM	#13
tns0038 Distinguished Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,931	Back in the early 90’s, I carried a Glock 19, and the unit I worked for issued Hydro Shok in 124 gr. I don’t know if it was +P+ or +P but it said LEO only. And was told at the time, it was the best of the best. Today I run 127 gr. +P+ Winchester Talons in the home defense G17, and for my carry G26 I run +P Hydro Shok 124 gr. Selecting the Duty Weapon--Is Caliber the Key? Is a good column on actual shootings and the effectiveness of the bullets used. If I was going to run a non +P bullet, I’d run Hydro Shok 124 gr. or 147 gr. or Cor Bon 115 gr. AS others of have said, make sure you shoot a bunch and see what cycles in your weapon flawlessly… and when you do find a round you like, by several boxes and shot it at least 100 times though your pistol before you consider it safe for use.

August 27th, 2009, 04:51 PM	#14
gumaro Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Alvin, TX Posts: 176	The Hornady Critical Defense FTX in 9mm 115gr are not +P. I believe the .380 and .38 are, but not sure.

August 27th, 2009, 06:55 PM	#16
Gunsmoke16 Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 44	It will cycle better with the lighter weight bullets. The 147grn actually jams in most short-barrel handguns due to not enough "blow-back" to cycle the next round from the weight of this behemoth exiting the barrel. I've shot most 9mm ammo over the years. I prefer Hornady for self defense. Their only claim is "We make large, open, fatal wound cavaties!" It is custom loaded also, so less chance of it "not" firing when needed most. I would probably recommend the Hornady Critical Defense Ammo as it is specifically made for self defense (shooting through clothing layers & expanding properly, whereas most others just clog and act like a roundball, causing little damage. It has a rubber/nylon tip guard that allows it to expand properly and makes it quite deadly). Usually the lightest weight bullet moving at high speed, provided it expands correctly, creates the most damaging wound cavity (based on what I've seen with ballastic jello tests. The Cor-Bon, I believe it uses the Speer Gold Dot bullet with different powder package vs Speer's Gold Dot Ammo. It's probably little hotter (have used it as well). Federal ammo works decently, but have saw some tests with .45 that would preclude me from carrying it for defense. It is stopped by bone and will not open/penetrate correctly. The Hornady (in .45ACP) opens up about size of a quarter with barbs that look very similar to the old Winchester Black Talon, in a starfish look that cuts a ragged, nasty pathway, punching right through bone, retaining almost 100% of itself. If you get a center mass hit with the Hornady load, it's game over for the bad guy. For practice I like the Winchester (Walmart in red, white, blue box) roundball cheap ammo and the much superior Sellior & Bellot, which is sealed for wet-weather environments and suprisingly cheap. I have a friend that owned a 5906 (Stainless Slide, Aluminum frame-looks similar to yours) and he fired about 500 rounds of German Hertinburger ammo through it, which is +P+ rated & designed for submachine guns. It cracked his frame rails (which are aluminum). I would shoot regular practice ammo and before leaving the range, maybe fire just few +P or whatever you are going to carry for defense, so you're comfortable with what it feels like. Just know, it will shorten the life of the gun and eventually even if it doesn't crack the frame rails, you might have to peen them back into specs where they stretched a bit and caused it not to be accurate anymore (incomplete lock-up of barrel/slide assembly=wobbly barrel). Aguillar Ammo out of Mexico has a nasty little round as well that's all aluminum bullet that's scored to fold back. It's probably just under +P rated, but with the light weight and powder package, does 1657 fps out of a .45ACP....burns clean, light recoil and hits like a mule. Probably be around 2000fps out of a 9mm. Nasty! Also, Compensated guns are finicky on ammo as well and can be unpredicatable...so if you have one of these, start with the 90-115 grain bullet & work up toward the 124 to see what it likes feeding the best. You can sometimes change springs if you know you must continually shoot hot loads. An old 1911A1 .45 caliber has many options for this, along with shock-buffs that are nylon bushings that protect the frame/slide from damage. Most Remington ammo I have found totally unreliable in any Ruger...and try not to use the stuff anymore. The UMC (Remington in yellow box sold at Walmart) won't hit the broad-side of a barn even if you're right next to the thing. It's horribly inaccurate and skunks up the gun so bad you have to use Gun Scrubber (I use automotive carberator & choke cleaner) just to get the powder fouling out. Hope this helps. Ask the rangemasters at your local range as well. They almost always rent/shoot guns & know people who reload & experiment with all the new ammo. Good source of knowledge and a great way to pick up equipment or sell your unwanted stuff...do they have a bulletin board? Happy shooting.