Why the Nine! - Page 3

Rugergirl · September 9th, 2009, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edr9x23super

It all boils down to the guy behind the gun, as it always has; the .45ACP round was designed historically to be powerful enough to bring down a charging horseman at 25 yards, since at it's inception, cavalry charges were still considered valid military tactics (until gallipoli and WWI). During SPECWAR operations in the war on terror, I have read stories about operators using their 1911 pistols make on-shot kills out to 50 yards; In one of Mas Ayoobs' columns, an LEO made a 70 yard shot with one, stopping an attacker with a rifle.

The .45 caliber bullet/cartridge combination has proved itself on the battlefield and the street more than any other cartridge, period. magazine capacity may be an issue, but with today's CCW needs, a short single stack .45 is stiil a viable option.

I would feel fine carrying a .357 magnum revolver. Why? Because I know how many rounds I have and will make those shots count. If I don't, then you know what happens as well as I do. In the case of the infamous Miami FBI gun battle, it was an agent using a .38 backup revolver who finally ended the fight. The mighty wondernines everyone had been touting as the best thing next to apple pie, had for the most part run dry........

I would also feel fine carrying any 9mm pistol; why? Again, because I would know my round count, and more importantly, my ability to place those shots accordingly....regardless of caliber. There also have been numerous stories about one-shot 9mm stops, and an equal number of stories about LEOs running dry because they emptied 2 or more magazines at an assailant, failing to stop them. In some cases, it has been several LEOs.

My impressions regarding caliber choices really boil down to what an individual shooter can handle safely, and effectively. My point here is that it doesn't matter what you use, because they all work if the shooter does their part. There was an old adage truly spoken by Jeff Cooper: "“Blessed are those who, in the face of death, think only about the front sight.”

Absolutely right......

I couldn't have said it better.
Each to his own and whatever the person shoots best.
For me that happens to be either my .44 Magnum or .357 revolver.
I'll take 6 or 7 well placed shots from either one over a 9mm that I don't shoot nearly as well.

hogdaddy · September 9th, 2009, 09:17 PM

A 9 will do FINE, If you put in the time!!

Bart · September 9th, 2009, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ndsupporter

If capacity is the name of the game, then I would think my XD45 is on the right track with 13+1.

I can see his point and agree with alot of what he is saying. I think until you hit and sever that pumping station (Ted Nudgents words) you run the risk of shooting a BG on PCP or some other drug ( or just pure rage)and not stopping them in time.

So shot placement is got to be the most important thing to consider in the moment of a deadly confrontation. That being said, do you really have time to aim, or do you shoot in the general direction and hope for the best.

This is where trainning plays the most important part; how well can you draw aim and shoot and if need be how well can you draw and shoot from the hip!

All questions that will certinly affect us differently God forbid that situation should ever occur!

I agree, shot placement is most important, and that of course depends on taking time to aim. Capacity is the name of the game only if you plan to miss a lot.

CJ810 · September 9th, 2009, 11:43 PM

That was really interesting; thanks.

Thanis · September 10th, 2009, 01:06 AM

Caliber wars. :)

I think the only thing I really don't like concerning these types of statements, is that no one is right and everyone is wrong when they state absolutes.

The word "may" should be used more often than "will." There are going to be times the 9mm was not enough, going to be times the .45 ACP will not have enough rounds, the .380 ACP will not penetrate, the .357 Sig over-penetrated etc.

I wonder if in the middle ages there were axe, mace, sword arguments. In the end, no matter what the weapon, most of the time any weapon may do the trick, and sometimes you brought the wrong one that day. There is no right or wrong answer until after the conflict has ended.

gottabkiddin · September 10th, 2009, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccw9mm

9mm Luger. It's: potent enough, IMO; compact/light enough to offer a better mix of power and round-count as compared to size/weight; offers decent reliability; is available everywhere, worldwide.

Perfectly stated! My preferred round is a .40, but I feel just as well protected with a Speer 9mm Luger 124 +p gold dot. 1220 Velocity and 410 ftps, that'll get the job done.

zacii · September 10th, 2009, 12:14 PM

I nominate #19 for the longest post in history.

Shot placement.

The End.

cj · September 10th, 2009, 12:22 PM

Copy/paste is easy, but might have been more user friendly to just link to the article.

Anyway: spend time practicing rather than arguing about which is better :)

LibertyFreak · September 10th, 2009, 12:54 PM

Does anyone else wonder how Deadmeat2 is able to ascertain the specific caliber of weapon from the autopsy table? As he even said, bullets fragment and warp...is he finding out from ballistics at a later date or is he guessing? His stories just seem a little fishy (and long). BTW I carry a .40cal or most often a .45cal. So it's not that I disagree with his conclusions! But I do respect the 9mm too.

llongshot · September 10th, 2009, 04:30 PM

I did some predation work on deer and (there was no caliber restriction for predation) used .22 subsonics a lot. A Contender rifle with a .22 match barrel and the subsonic hollowpoint would drop a deer in its tracks at twenty five yards if the round went into the brain pan at the correct angle. On the other hand my outdoor carry is a 10MM with a fifteen round mag and I have two spares. It's all a matter of opinion. What works for me may or may not be an option for you for a hundred reasons. The ability to use what you feel at ease with is equally important as the size of your projectile (starting to sound like sex ain't it?).

September 9th, 2009, 09:17 PM	#22
hogdaddy Distinguished Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: N/E Florida Posts: 1,232	A 9 will do FINE, If you put in the time!! __________________ WE SAY GRACE & WE SAY MAM IF YA AINT IN THE SOUTH WE DON'T GIVE A DAM / WE CAN SKIN A BUCK & RUN A TROUTE LINE & A COUNTRY BOY CAN (SURVIVE)>>HANK JR.

September 10th, 2009, 01:06 AM	#25
Thanis Distinguished Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,704	Caliber wars. :) I think the only thing I really don't like concerning these types of statements, is that no one is right and everyone is wrong when they state absolutes. The word "may" should be used more often than "will." There are going to be times the 9mm was not enough, going to be times the .45 ACP will not have enough rounds, the .380 ACP will not penetrate, the .357 Sig over-penetrated etc. I wonder if in the middle ages there were axe, mace, sword arguments. In the end, no matter what the weapon, most of the time any weapon may do the trick, and sometimes you brought the wrong one that day. There is no right or wrong answer until after the conflict has ended. __________________ NRA Member S&W 642 (no-lock) with .38 Spl +P 135 GR Gold GDHP Glock G31 & G33 with .357 Sig 125 GR. SXT Winchester Ranger

September 10th, 2009, 12:14 PM	#27
zacii Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: arizona Posts: 319	I nominate #19 for the longest post in history. Shot placement. The End. __________________ Trust in God and keep your powder dry Superduper Snubbie Thread Why 1911?

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September 9th, 2009, 11:43 PM	#24
CJ810 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 200	That was really interesting; thanks.

September 10th, 2009, 12:22 PM	#28
cj Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 357	Copy/paste is easy, but might have been more user friendly to just link to the article. Anyway: spend time practicing rather than arguing about which is better :)

September 10th, 2009, 12:54 PM	#29
LibertyFreak Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dallas-Ft. Worth Posts: 71	Does anyone else wonder how Deadmeat2 is able to ascertain the specific caliber of weapon from the autopsy table? As he even said, bullets fragment and warp...is he finding out from ballistics at a later date or is he guessing? His stories just seem a little fishy (and long). BTW I carry a .40cal or most often a .45cal. So it's not that I disagree with his conclusions! But I do respect the 9mm too.

September 10th, 2009, 04:30 PM	#30
llongshot Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Deep Southern Illinois Posts: 277	I did some predation work on deer and (there was no caliber restriction for predation) used .22 subsonics a lot. A Contender rifle with a .22 match barrel and the subsonic hollowpoint would drop a deer in its tracks at twenty five yards if the round went into the brain pan at the correct angle. On the other hand my outdoor carry is a 10MM with a fifteen round mag and I have two spares. It's all a matter of opinion. What works for me may or may not be an option for you for a hundred reasons. The ability to use what you feel at ease with is equally important as the size of your projectile (starting to sound like sex ain't it?).