Range Asked Me to Leave My Wolf Ammo at the Counter - Page 8

JT · October 9th, 2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faitmaker

JT - Your knowledge of world cartridges is incredible. I'll only remember a .05 of what I just read on your link and it was very interesting.

Thanks, but in case there was any confusion, the web page is not mine, I was just referencing it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faitmaker

The bottom line still is it's their range. You and I know their reasons are ******** but it's still their range.

Agreed. I would just prefer they be honest about their reasons. I would respect that more, even if I didn’t agree with them.

SIXTO · October 9th, 2009, 12:01 PM

I'm not intending to restart the debate, but there is still other reasons why ranges won't allow it other than the steel core issue.

JT · October 9th, 2009, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIXTO

I'm not intending to restart the debate, but there is still other reasons why ranges won't allow it other than the steel core issue.

Agreed. That's why I said I would prefer they were honest (or accurate) about their reasons. I may or may not agree with their decision, but I would respect it more.

For example, if they say they don’t allow Wolf because it has a steel core, they are miss-informed about Wolf ammo, or they are lying to me.

If they say they don’t allow Wolf because it has a steel jacket, I may not think that the jacket would damage the range, but it is a debatable point (opposed to the fact of Wolf’s composition) and can respect the fact that they are concerned about their range.

If they say the reason is because they don’t want to separate brass cases from steel, I won’t like the reason, but at least they have been honest and accurate about the business decision behind the reason.

SIXTO · October 9th, 2009, 01:58 PM

Yeah, but the average flunkie running the register at any given range doesnt know or understand the history of surplus ammunition and is probably given the basic of the basic explanation of why they do what they do.
Also, the average customer is the same way. The average simply wants to come in, shoot a little and go home. He doesnt care other than the fact that it will cost him a few more bucks for domestic ammo. Most customers what bat an eye at the explaination given... and over time it just became easier to give an across the board explanation like we have seen here.

BaserRonin · October 9th, 2009, 02:37 PM

There is no reason to know the history of surplus ammunition to know that Wolf does not contain steel cores. This is a very basic fact that anyone could easily check. Being lied to about something so very basic is not a simple mistake, instead it just reeks of intentional deception to cover their real motive.

SIXTO · October 9th, 2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaserRonin

There is no reason to know the history of surplus ammunition to know that Wolf does not contain steel cores. This is a very basic fact that anyone could easily check. Being lied to about something so very basic is not a simple mistake, instead it just reeks of intentional deception to cover their real motive.

But steel cores are only part of the reason!

There are other reasons as well. Bimetal jackets, sparks, spin chambers....

There is no 'vast range owner conspiracy' LOL.

BaserRonin · October 9th, 2009, 03:07 PM

I said they are lying to you about something that is very easily verifiable. I did not say there was a vast conspiracy. I did, however, imply that there is no way they are ignorant enough to believe wolf has steel cores. If they are, it is simply inexcusable when it can be verified false with a simple phone call or a 30 second internet search.

You did this earlier too when you attempted to refute my claim that a magnet would pick up a steel core or a steel jacket. You flatly stated that I was wrong...your reasoning: because the magnet will pick up the steel jacket.

stoprilshoot · October 9th, 2009, 03:09 PM

it seems there are many legit reasons for not allowing wolf.

im not sure if saying it sparks more is a valid one but i have never shot wolf to know.

SIXTO · October 9th, 2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaserRonin

You did this earlier too when you attempted to refute my claim that a magnet would pick up a steel core or a steel jacket. You flatly stated that I was wrong...your reasoning: because the magnet will pick up the steel jacket.

No, here is what I said;

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIXTO

maybe, maybe not. A lot seem to want to error on the side of caution. Magnet checks may or may not work, I doubt a magnet would tell you if its a steel core or not, and if its a jacket, I doubt there is enough material for it to be obvious.
Thats just my theory though; I don't have any personal knowledge or facts to back that up.

Then, I found this after reading JT's link and quoted it;

Quote:

Almost all commie surplus ammo uses bullets made with copper plated steel jackets, So using a magnet is useless because it will be sticking to the steel bullet jacket and not the steel core. The only way to tell if your ammo is steel core is to pull a bullet. Steel core bullets are over 1" long, have a boat tail, and have black sealer on them. In the pic the steel core bullet is on the left and the lead core on the right.

So, I had a theory and said it was nothing more than a theory. Then, I found a link provided by the other side of this debate that supports my theory.... seems reasonable to me.
I did change the word Russian to "commie", as "Russian" doesnt accuratly reflect what we are talking about. It isnt Russian ammo, its communist surplus ammo from the former Soviet Union. Anyway, thats of no matter here.

But once again, we are focused on only a small part why Wolf and other surplus comblok ammo is not allowed on many ranges. I'm not even sure why its worth discussing.

BaserRonin · October 9th, 2009, 03:44 PM

for the record, I stated (bold added for emphasis):

Quote:

A magnet will pick up either a steel core or a steel jacket. It is very unlikely the steel jacket will damage the range, but if they want to not allow steel at all, that will tell them 100% of the time that it either has a steel jacket or a steel core.

You stated:

Quote:

As for the "check it with a magnet" camp; You can't! It wont work to check the core.
here is why,

followed by the quote from the link.

Quote:

Almost all commie surplus ammo uses bullets made with copper plated steel jackets, So using a magnet is useless because it will be sticking to the steel bullet jacket and not the steel core. The only way to tell if your ammo is steel core is to pull a bullet.

Which, while mostly correct, supports what I stated: "A magnet will pick up either a steel core or a steel jacket".

October 9th, 2009, 12:01 PM	#72
SIXTO VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 12,258	I'm not intending to restart the debate, but there is still other reasons why ranges won't allow it other than the steel core issue. __________________ _________________ \|^^^^^^^^^^^^^\| \|___ \| SIXTO EXPRESS---\| \|\|'\|";,__. \|_..._...___________\| \|\|_\|_\|...,] "(@)'(@)""""\|(@)(@)*****(@)

October 9th, 2009, 01:58 PM	#74
SIXTO VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 12,258	Yeah, but the average flunkie running the register at any given range doesnt know or understand the history of surplus ammunition and is probably given the basic of the basic explanation of why they do what they do. Also, the average customer is the same way. The average simply wants to come in, shoot a little and go home. He doesnt care other than the fact that it will cost him a few more bucks for domestic ammo. Most customers what bat an eye at the explaination given... and over time it just became easier to give an across the board explanation like we have seen here. __________________ _________________ \|^^^^^^^^^^^^^\| \|___ \| SIXTO EXPRESS---\| \|\|'\|";,__. \|_..._...___________\| \|\|_\|_\|...,] "(@)'(@)""""\|(@)(@)*****(@)

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October 9th, 2009, 02:37 PM	#75
BaserRonin Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 275	There is no reason to know the history of surplus ammunition to know that Wolf does not contain steel cores. This is a very basic fact that anyone could easily check. Being lied to about something so very basic is not a simple mistake, instead it just reeks of intentional deception to cover their real motive.

October 9th, 2009, 03:07 PM	#77
BaserRonin Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 275	I said they are lying to you about something that is very easily verifiable. I did not say there was a vast conspiracy. I did, however, imply that there is no way they are ignorant enough to believe wolf has steel cores. If they are, it is simply inexcusable when it can be verified false with a simple phone call or a 30 second internet search. You did this earlier too when you attempted to refute my claim that a magnet would pick up a steel core or a steel jacket. You flatly stated that I was wrong...your reasoning: because the magnet will pick up the steel jacket.

October 9th, 2009, 03:09 PM	#78
stoprilshoot Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: NC,USA Posts: 192	it seems there are many legit reasons for not allowing wolf. im not sure if saying it sparks more is a valid one but i have never shot wolf to know.