Caliber Wars are over for me

10thmtn · October 10th, 2009, 10:37 PM

I found some very interesting info over at Warriortalk, posted by some folks who I respect and who are well versed on ballistics.

It seems the math has been done, and the .45 has a 4-7% probability (per shot, depending on whether or not it expands) of hitting something vital (spine or major artery) that a slightly smaller 9mm barely misses. That means if you shoot 100 rounds, you would nick something vital with a .45 that would be a near miss with a 9mm only 4-7 times on average. You are better served by firing more 9mm rounds - this gives you a much greater chance of hitting something vital than relying on the larger size of the .45.

This small per-shot advantage for the .45 comes at the expense of less magazine capacity (in a given size gun), greater recoil/slower follow-up shots (all else being equal), and more expensive practice ammo.

Ammo capacity is important to me, as I do not expect one shot from any handgun (regardless of caliber) to stop a determined attacker. Thus, controllability and the ability to make fast, accurate follow-up shots is also important to me. The 9mm has a distinct advantage here.

For me, the small per-shot advantage of the .45 over the 9mm is not worth the associated trade-offs. By all means, if you can conceal-carry a double stack .45, and make repeated hits with it as quickly and accurately as you could with a 9mm, go for it. Most folks, however, would likely find that hard to do.

So, I'm sticking with the 9mm caliber. I've conceded that there must be some per-shot advantage to the larger calibers, but I've been unconvinced that the advantage was great enough to warrant the associated systemic trade-offs. Now that I know the actual "number" I have even more confidence that the 9mm is the best all-around caliber for self-defense for my purposes.

retsupt99 · October 10th, 2009, 10:41 PM

Anyone want some?

Majorlk · October 10th, 2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retsupt99

Anyone want some?

Yes, and pass the butter.

Cuda66 · October 10th, 2009, 10:57 PM

OK, maybe for this one...

digitalexplr · October 10th, 2009, 10:57 PM

As they say, a .22 that hits the target does more damage than a .44mag that misses.

Caliber wars are silly. No one get's out of the morque because the round that killed them was too small - or too big. There is not less dead and more dead. There is just dead.

knuckledragr · October 10th, 2009, 11:01 PM

any caliber beats throwing rocks.

seriously, are there any that you would want to be shot with? (I did not think so)

zacii · October 10th, 2009, 11:05 PM

ecbaatz · October 10th, 2009, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retsupt99

Anyone want some?

I will take some, thanks, love popcorn and love a good discussion.

Rugergirl · October 10th, 2009, 11:24 PM

10thmtn · October 10th, 2009, 11:28 PM

Funny guys!

My purpose is not to beat that dead horse, but to pass on info that was new...to me, anyways. I've not ever seen the per-shot advantage of the .45 over the 9mm quantified before. I figured it was there, and I figured it was small...but I never knew the "percent advantage" before.

It is, of course, up to everyone to decide on their own if this advantage is worth the trade-offs. At least they now know what the advantage actually is...

I'll take some popcorn too - light butter and salt, please!

October 10th, 2009, 10:37 PM	#1
10thmtn Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Posts: 656	Caliber Wars are over for me I found some very interesting info over at Warriortalk, posted by some folks who I respect and who are well versed on ballistics. It seems the math has been done, and the .45 has a 4-7% probability (per shot, depending on whether or not it expands) of hitting something vital (spine or major artery) that a slightly smaller 9mm barely misses. That means if you shoot 100 rounds, you would nick something vital with a .45 that would be a near miss with a 9mm only 4-7 times on average. You are better served by firing more 9mm rounds - this gives you a much greater chance of hitting something vital than relying on the larger size of the .45. This small per-shot advantage for the .45 comes at the expense of less magazine capacity (in a given size gun), greater recoil/slower follow-up shots (all else being equal), and more expensive practice ammo. Ammo capacity is important to me, as I do not expect one shot from any handgun (regardless of caliber) to stop a determined attacker. Thus, controllability and the ability to make fast, accurate follow-up shots is also important to me. The 9mm has a distinct advantage here. For me, the small per-shot advantage of the .45 over the 9mm is not worth the associated trade-offs. By all means, if you can conceal-carry a double stack .45, and make repeated hits with it as quickly and accurately as you could with a 9mm, go for it. Most folks, however, would likely find that hard to do. So, I'm sticking with the 9mm caliber. I've conceded that there must be some per-shot advantage to the larger calibers, but I've been unconvinced that the advantage was great enough to warrant the associated systemic trade-offs. Now that I know the actual "number" I have even more confidence that the 9mm is the best all-around caliber for self-defense for my purposes. __________________ The People ARE the Militia, and have a DUTY (not just a right) to be both armed and proficient in the use of said arms. Ex-Army officer; Hurricane Andrew Relief, FL, 1992; Operation Restore Hope, Somalia, 1993 NRA Life Member; Range Safety Officer Glock 26, CT Laserguard, Smartcarry

October 10th, 2009, 10:41 PM	#2
retsupt99 VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 22,726	Anyone want some? __________________ "That I cannot do." "Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks." *********************************** NRA Life Member

October 10th, 2009, 10:57 PM	#4
Cuda66 Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: minnesota Posts: 485	OK, maybe for this one... __________________ One man's theology is another man's belly laugh. --RAH

October 10th, 2009, 10:57 PM	#5
digitalexplr Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Jefferson City, MO Posts: 655	As they say, a .22 that hits the target does more damage than a .44mag that misses. Caliber wars are silly. No one get's out of the morque because the round that killed them was too small - or too big. There is not less dead and more dead. There is just dead. __________________ XD9sc XD40 Service Mossberg 590a1 NRA Life Member

October 10th, 2009, 11:05 PM	#7
zacii Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: arizona Posts: 317	__________________ Trust in God and keep your powder dry Superduper Snubbie Thread Why 1911?

October 10th, 2009, 11:01 PM	#6
knuckledragr Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Arkansas Posts: 48	any caliber beats throwing rocks. seriously, are there any that you would want to be shot with? (I did not think so)

October 10th, 2009, 11:24 PM	#9
Rugergirl Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,193	Mmmm __________________ Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

October 10th, 2009, 11:28 PM	#10
10thmtn Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Posts: 656	Funny guys! My purpose is not to beat that dead horse, but to pass on info that was new...to me, anyways. I've not ever seen the per-shot advantage of the .45 over the 9mm quantified before. I figured it was there, and I figured it was small...but I never knew the "percent advantage" before. It is, of course, up to everyone to decide on their own if this advantage is worth the trade-offs. At least they now know what the advantage actually is... I'll take some popcorn too - light butter and salt, please! __________________ The People ARE the Militia, and have a DUTY (not just a right) to be both armed and proficient in the use of said arms. Ex-Army officer; Hurricane Andrew Relief, FL, 1992; Operation Restore Hope, Somalia, 1993 NRA Life Member; Range Safety Officer Glock 26, CT Laserguard, Smartcarry

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode