Hornady Personal Defense - Page 2

10thmtn · October 15th, 2009, 10:32 PM

Pick a round that:

1. Feeds reliably in your pistol;

2. Penetrates 12-15 inches in gel tests; and

3. Reliably expands (understanding that none are 100%).

Low recoil, low flash, corrosion resistance, and crimped cases to resist setback are also good features.

Beyond that, they will all work. In one test, a certain bullet may be marginally better. In another test, you will see a different result. You can overthink this and make yourself crazy!

Majorlk · October 16th, 2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10thmtn

Beyond that, they will all work. In one test, a certain bullet may be marginally better. In another test, you will see a different result. You can overthink this and make yourself crazy!

Truer words were never spoken!!!

Random · October 16th, 2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmdrdredd

Well, it just so happens that I have a link to Dr. Gary Roberts who is a very well respected ballistics expert who's job it is to test various bullet designs and ballistic vests etc.

Cool - thanks for the links!

[quote =cmdrdredd;1336039 ]Also here where a .38spl Hornady Critical Defense load failed to expand when fired through 4 layers of denim. BUG's: .380 ACP vs. .38 Sp - M4Carbine.net Forums[/QUOTE]

I thought the whole idea of the Critical Defense was to prevent clogging so it would expand. That test seems to show differently. I would really like to see more tests of that...

gglass · October 16th, 2009, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random

Cool - thanks for the links!

[quote =cmdrdredd;1336039 ]Also here where a .38spl Hornady Critical Defense load failed to expand when fired through 4 layers of denim. BUG's: .380 ACP vs. .38 Sp - M4Carbine.net Forums

Quote:

I thought the whole idea of the Critical Defense was to prevent clogging so it would expand. That test seems to show differently. I would really like to see more tests of that...

There was a follow up report in which Dr. Roberts allowed Hornady to submit another batch of FTX (hand picked if you ask me). It miraculously worked in the second round of testing. I'm sure that somebody will be right along with a link to the more successful testing.

As for me, I'll wait until Hornady hand picks every bullet in the box before I'll buy it.

gunfan · October 16th, 2009, 03:34 PM

I want to let you know, at the risk of being flamed, that if you are shooting any caliber less powerful than the 9mm/.38 Special (for self defense) should never employ expanding bullets. The reasons for this are:

a) slower moving bullets may not reliably expand;

b) "putting the brakes" on slower moving projectiles will almost certainly prevent the penetration needed to acheive the desired results.

"Shot placement is king, penetration is queen. Everything else is angels dancing on the heads of pins." - Erich Martel

digitalexplr · October 16th, 2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gglass

Everyone should switch to Hornady. That will leave more Gold Dots Ranger T's and HST's on the shelf for me.

I concur 100%!

cmdrdredd · October 16th, 2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gglass

There was a follow up report in which Dr. Roberts allowed Hornady to submit another batch of FTX (hand picked if you ask me). It miraculously worked in the second round of testing. I'm sure that somebody will be right along with a link to the more successful testing.

As for me, I'll wait until Hornady hand picks every bullet in the box before I'll buy it.

Right, but as you can see. Dr. Roberts does not personally recommend any Hornady load for any caliber currently to market. That's good enough for me to use something different. Should it work? Probably yes, but I sleep better knowing that someone thoroughly tested the loading I carry and use in my defensive pistols and that same expert says it's good to go.

Winchester White Box JHP from Wal Mart will probably work too, but few people rely on it because there are more tested rounds available that have real world working results from various situations and police agencies.

brobar · October 16th, 2009, 10:56 PM

I can't speak to the ballistics because I don't have the ability to do controlled ballistics testing. All I can go by is what I read and what I experience at the range. American Rifleman & Handgun magazine both gave favorable reviews. I took 50 rounds of Critical Defense and 50 rounds of Golden Sabers to the range today (along with 100 rounds of WWB FMJ) to do some testing. Yep... it was an expensive trip... but I want to know that what I'm feeding through my EDC is reliable. Both the Critical Defense & Golden Sabers both fed reliably with no FTEs or FTFs. Now I know there will be a difference between 124g and 115g but I didn't think it would be THAT noticeable. Even shooting the 115g Critical Defense side by side with the WWB 115g... it was noticeably less muzzle flip. I had great groupings with the Golden Sabers... but VERY tight and even better groupings with the Critical Defense. I went through 5 targets for each load (10 shots per target) and ever time the Critical Defense had better placement than the Golden Sabers. The control was better, less recoil, and it didn't seem as loud either but maybe that was just me.

Nothing against the Golden Sabers... it is a great, tested load that is very reliable. Ballistics being the only ??? when it comes to the Critical Defense... if we can get some consecutive good reports on the CD then I'm sure I'll probably choose that to load my EDC. I'll probably go through here in the next few weeks and throw another 50 or so down range just to make sure... but if the next 50 were like the first 50 then I'm really going to enjoy it. They were a pleasure to shoot. BTW... the XD9sc is so much fun to shoot! I love it!

tangoseal · October 17th, 2009, 02:53 AM

I use hornady... ask the watermelon what he thought of my 200gr +p .45

stoprilshoot · October 17th, 2009, 10:09 AM

Hornady make some great premium loads. anybody thats dumping on them needs to get a clue.

October 15th, 2009, 10:32 PM	#11
10thmtn Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Posts: 658	Pick a round that: 1. Feeds reliably in your pistol; 2. Penetrates 12-15 inches in gel tests; and 3. Reliably expands (understanding that none are 100%). Low recoil, low flash, corrosion resistance, and crimped cases to resist setback are also good features. Beyond that, they will all work. In one test, a certain bullet may be marginally better. In another test, you will see a different result. You can overthink this and make yourself crazy! __________________ The People ARE the Militia, and have a DUTY (not just a right) to be both armed and proficient in the use of said arms. Ex-Army officer; Hurricane Andrew Relief, FL, 1992; Operation Restore Hope, Somalia, 1993 NRA Life Member; Range Safety Officer Glock 26, CT Laserguard, Smartcarry

October 17th, 2009, 02:53 AM	#19
tangoseal Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: WoodStock, Georgia Posts: 348	I use hornady... ask the watermelon what he thought of my 200gr +p .45 __________________ "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

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October 16th, 2009, 03:34 PM	#15
gunfan Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Vancouver, Washington Posts: 156	I want to let you know, at the risk of being flamed, that if you are shooting any caliber less powerful than the 9mm/.38 Special (for self defense) should never employ expanding bullets. The reasons for this are: a) slower moving bullets may not reliably expand; b) "putting the brakes" on slower moving projectiles will almost certainly prevent the penetration needed to acheive the desired results. "Shot placement is king, penetration is queen. Everything else is angels dancing on the heads of pins." - Erich Martel

October 16th, 2009, 10:56 PM	#18
brobar Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 104	I can't speak to the ballistics because I don't have the ability to do controlled ballistics testing. All I can go by is what I read and what I experience at the range. American Rifleman & Handgun magazine both gave favorable reviews. I took 50 rounds of Critical Defense and 50 rounds of Golden Sabers to the range today (along with 100 rounds of WWB FMJ) to do some testing. Yep... it was an expensive trip... but I want to know that what I'm feeding through my EDC is reliable. Both the Critical Defense & Golden Sabers both fed reliably with no FTEs or FTFs. Now I know there will be a difference between 124g and 115g but I didn't think it would be THAT noticeable. Even shooting the 115g Critical Defense side by side with the WWB 115g... it was noticeably less muzzle flip. I had great groupings with the Golden Sabers... but VERY tight and even better groupings with the Critical Defense. I went through 5 targets for each load (10 shots per target) and ever time the Critical Defense had better placement than the Golden Sabers. The control was better, less recoil, and it didn't seem as loud either but maybe that was just me. Nothing against the Golden Sabers... it is a great, tested load that is very reliable. Ballistics being the only ??? when it comes to the Critical Defense... if we can get some consecutive good reports on the CD then I'm sure I'll probably choose that to load my EDC. I'll probably go through here in the next few weeks and throw another 50 or so down range just to make sure... but if the next 50 were like the first 50 then I'm really going to enjoy it. They were a pleasure to shoot. BTW... the XD9sc is so much fun to shoot! I love it!

October 17th, 2009, 10:09 AM	#20
stoprilshoot Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: NC,USA Posts: 192	Hornady make some great premium loads. anybody thats dumping on them needs to get a clue.