cmdrdredd

If someone who is paid to test bullet designs, investigate the wound characteristics, and give recommendations doesn't recommend it I won't use it. That's that.

Think about why the Winchester Ranger series, Federal HST series, and Speer Gold Dots always get recommended. They meet a set of requirements that some others do not.

__________________
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
-Thomas Jefferson

You can trust to luck or fate if you want but as for me, I carry a Glock.

AZ Desertrat

Yes, as far as I have read, it is good to go. I am going to try some tomorrow.

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cmdrdredd

If by Try some you mean shoot at targets ok...as good as any FMJ.

compare the results of it vs HST, Ranger T, Gold Dot, Golden Saber, DPX etc in a ballistic, wounding, and expansion test.

I may seem like I'm really harping on something here and I am, I'm just a BIG proponent of realistic ballistics gel testing by 3rd parties. I am not a fan of any manufacturer who makes claims without real results and allowing a 3rd party to do the testing (MagSafe ammo for example), and am also not a fan of companies who fail a test then are allowed to send another sample and test again with completely different results. IMO that test should have been invalidated and another box be taken off the retail shelf and tested. Manufacturer may have hand picked the rounds in that particular shipment that was sent to Dr. Roberts after the failed testing. Plus, Hornady is about the only company I see who produces a video of their testing and puts it on the web. WHy would you need to do that? Shouldn't real world LEO accounts and expert 3rd party ballistic testing be enough? Oh wait...it's not.

I'm not a fan of marketing unless the results back it up when tested. Am I hating on hornady? Not really, I simply believe results should always speak for themselves.

__________________
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
-Thomas Jefferson

You can trust to luck or fate if you want but as for me, I carry a Glock.

brobar

For those of you waiting for FBI passing ballistics testing... I hope you are not holding your breath! This round was manufactured with a distinct purpose in mind... close quarters self defense round. It is NOT an FBI round. It is NOT a LEO round. It was not designed to be shot through glass, through walls, through plywood etc. What it was designed for... it does so consistently and well. It was designed with CC in mind and takes into account the overwhelming majority of civilian self defense scenarios. *Most* people are not going to be defending themselves shooting through walls, shooting through glass, shooting through car doors, etc... Some of you may... that is why I say *most*. A lot of people won't feel comfortable unless they know their load can go through X amounts of Y hard material... and if they feel that way then I definitely don't think they will or should use this particular ammo. If you want a reliable ammo that covers hitting a bad guy through multiple layers of clothing (not car doors, glass, walls, tires, safes, refrigerators, etc...) then maybe this ammo might be the right stuff for you.

Once again... it does not and will not meet FBI standards or most LEO standards when it comes to shooting through most stuff out there... but I don't think Hornady has ever... not even once said it was designed for the FBI or every day LEO. So if having what the men in black or men in blue have is that important to you... please don't buy it.

cmdrdredd

Perhaps you forgot where Dr. Gary Roberts is recommending "Self Defense" ammo. Not ammo for the LEO. Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

He even has a writeup on that page for overpenetration inside the home. If that's not written with the civilian in mind, I dunno what else to say. Having said that, Hornady isn't on the list.

Let me reiterate what I said previously. There are people who use WWB JHP and are comfortable with that. It's ok. Really, even Dr. Roberts says you are free to choose any ammo you want. The recommendations he has made come from specific testing and data from himself and other ballistic experts from the FBI and elsewhere. It's not necessarily set in stone as being the only rounds that do the job, rather it's what the experts who have tested pretty much everything out there deem best. I'm not, and never did say Hornady rounds won't work. I'm only saying it doesn't make the list because of a specific failure to meet a very specific set of requirements. What those requirements are I'm not 100% sure and have never tried to be an expert. I only know what I've read, and what in my mind is more hype than results. Heck, even the new PDX1 ammo is marketed as the ammo that the FBI chose. It may be, but I wouldn't buy it based only on that.

Above all, practice with whatever you choose so that you're comfortable putting shots on target. All else is secondary really.

__________________
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
-Thomas Jefferson

You can trust to luck or fate if you want but as for me, I carry a Glock.

brobar

Like I said... it isn't for everybody! And looking at his results... he says it right off the bat how he goes by FBI standards. So if the guy goes by FBI standards... then something that doesn't meet FBI standards is probably not going to meet his standards. I've never said (and never will say) that you or anyone else should use it. I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here and say for all of those who complain about it not meeting FBI standards... exactly... it was not designed with going through glass, car doors, drywall, etc... in mind so it WON'T meet those standards and obviously because many ballisticians rate based upon FBI standards... it will not meet their standards either.

It is a niche round. It might not fit your niche. If it doesn't fit your niche... I would probably suggest not buying or using it.

stoprilshoot

why would you be biased @ Hornady?

if the Dr. had a dought about the legitimate details of the replacement ammo, why would he test it as vailid? if you cant accept the validity of the ammo how can you accept the validity of the Dr.'s testing?

brobar

Where can I find Dr. Rober's ballistics results for the 9mm variant of the Hornady Critical Defense round. I may not be looking in the right spots... but I can't find it. Anyone kind enough to share? Thanks!

stoprilshoot

or .40S&W?

:)

Slim_45

My personal choice is Federal HST's
although i could not get my hands on enough of them when i bought the new Kimber UC2 so i got some Winchester Ranger Talon's instead & i must say it's quite impressive also

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