Speer Gold Dots Practice Ammo

walrusjax · October 18th, 2009, 01:33 AM

Today, I bought a bulk pack of 9mm Speer 124 gr +P HPs. They were 250 rounds for $120, so I picked one up. When I got home, I noticed that it doesn't say Gold Dot on the box and it does say "Not for LE Use" and "Practice Ammunition." What exactly does that mean? I did ask before I bought and these are NOT reloads, they are factory new.

Should I literally use them only for practice or is that just marketing and they'll be fine for Personal Defense as well? I could use them to run 100 rounds through my new M&P9c, as a test, and then go buy a box of 20 for $20, but that seems stupid unless there is a real reason that these are for practice.

NC Bullseye · October 18th, 2009, 01:36 AM

They were rejected from the assembly line for some reason. Could be cosmetic or could be functional (low powder charge, primer set, etc). It'd be wisest to use for range as noted.

Will they have problems? Probably not. Worth betting your life to save a few bucks on SD ammo? Not for me.

gottabkiddin · October 18th, 2009, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NC Bullseye

Will they have problems? Probably not. Worth betting your life to save a few bucks on SD ammo? Not for me.

"Big" 10/4 on that one there.

cmdrdredd · October 18th, 2009, 10:31 AM

Guys, this is a Law Enforcement contract overrun. Federal HST, Winchester Ranger Bonded, and now Speer Gold Dot have all found their way to retail channels in this manner. It says not for LE use because it's it's supposed to be for the contract order and since the contract buyer is not taking them it is only to be used in retail channels and not used in any other contract or by any other agency. Each contract has a specific requirement they ask for in the order. The manufacturer would like to not risk an LEO using this round and having it be outside the department requirements and the blame going to the manufacturer for such a round being outside the department requirements for a duty load. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. The "Not for LE use" sticker is a save your ass liability sticker, so that if an LEO uses the round in a shoot, and after investigation it is deemed the ammo falls outside the very specific department requirements for velocity, they won't be liable for any damages because it was marked to not be used in that capacity.

Same deal as the following.

gottabkiddin · October 18th, 2009, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmdrdredd

There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. The "Not for LE use" sticker is a save your ass liability sticker, so that if an LEO uses the round in a shoot, and after investigation it is deemed the ammo falls outside the very specific department requirements for velocity, they won't be liable for any damages because it was marked to not be used in that capacity.

Thanks for the information. I never would have thought of that, but it makes perfect sense to me now that you mention it.

cmdrdredd · October 18th, 2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gottabkiddin

Thanks for the information. I never would have thought of that, but it makes perfect sense to me now that you mention it.

This information comes direct from a local dealer who had obtained some HST this way. I asked him about it and he was told from the distributor not to sell it to LEOs because the departments issue their ammo, and the ammo issued meets a specific set of requirements that might not match up with this lot.

stoprilshoot · October 18th, 2009, 12:41 PM

if the man wants to use ammo that is out of spec for self defense i cant stop it.

i warn against doing so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmdrdredd

This information comes direct from a local dealer who had obtained some HST this way. I asked him about it and he was told from the distributor not to sell it to LEOs because the departments issue their ammo, and the ammo issued meets a specific set of requirements that might not match up with this lot.

this makes no sence. its likely most ammo that is sold over the counter to LEO's does not meet their issued ammo spec. sounds more like typical gun store BS to me.

cmdrdredd · October 18th, 2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoprilshoot

if the man wants to use ammo that is out of spec for self defense i cant stop it.

i warn against doing so.

this makes no sence. its likely most ammo that is sold over the counter to LEO's does not meet their issued ammo spec. sounds more like typical gun store BS to me.

No it's true. The fact is THIS. When a department orders ammo they have a specific requirement for everything including velocity. I have heard of lots being rejected for being 4fps over the variance allowed. That is why they will not sell the overruns to LEOs and agencies. Their requirements may not be met. LEOs do not go to the store and buy ammo for duty carry. It is issued. The only ammo bought from a store that an LEO might use is off duty. Duty rounds, at least in all departments in my area that I know of are strictly issued by the department and the officers are responsible for everything. One guy told me he happened to lose 1 round during the day because he has to clear his weapon many times and heard an ear full about it. I talk to the officers in my area weekly and none of them buy duty ammo at the store. Everything they need is issued when it comes to ammunition. Personal use weapons, they must provide their own ammo. I know at least the sheriff's department must carry a specific weapon off duty if the officer is going to carry off duty at all unless he or she has a CCW. Then they may use whatever they wish. It's all about liability in this "I'm going to sue you" attitude that runs rampant in this country.

It's not "out of spec" as you say. It's an overrun. If it's an order that is rejected it is not crap. It's simply not within the limits of what the department/agency will accept. That has nothing to do with the quality of the ammo and ability of the bullet to expand properly and penetrate properly etc. This is strictly to be used by a department or agency as practice only so that it never comes up in court as a point of vulnerability to the officers or the department/agency if it is used in a shooting and found to be outside the variance allowed.

automatic slim · October 18th, 2009, 02:04 PM

Just to play it safe, I would test fire a few.

walrusjax · October 18th, 2009, 02:31 PM

Thank you all for such great information. The reason that I bought this bulk pack is because I want to go fire 100 rounds at the range to make sure I get no jams, etc. I have heard from numerous sources that you should never carry an ammo that you haven't fired at least 100 rounds, so even if it is just for practice, it serves my purpose and gives me plenty more to occasionally shoot to make sure I stay acquainted with it.

Also, before I posted here, I sent an e-mail to Speer with the lot and container number of my box of ammo and asked them for an explanation. Once I hear back, I will post their response so that all can benefit from that info.

October 18th, 2009, 01:33 AM	#1
walrusjax Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 26	Speer Gold Dots Practice Ammo Today, I bought a bulk pack of 9mm Speer 124 gr +P HPs. They were 250 rounds for $120, so I picked one up. When I got home, I noticed that it doesn't say Gold Dot on the box and it does say "Not for LE Use" and "Practice Ammunition." What exactly does that mean? I did ask before I bought and these are NOT reloads, they are factory new. Should I literally use them only for practice or is that just marketing and they'll be fine for Personal Defense as well? I could use them to run 100 rounds through my new M&P9c, as a test, and then go buy a box of 20 for $20, but that seems stupid unless there is a real reason that these are for practice.

October 18th, 2009, 10:31 AM	#4
cmdrdredd Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 698	Guys, this is a Law Enforcement contract overrun. Federal HST, Winchester Ranger Bonded, and now Speer Gold Dot have all found their way to retail channels in this manner. It says not for LE use because it's it's supposed to be for the contract order and since the contract buyer is not taking them it is only to be used in retail channels and not used in any other contract or by any other agency. Each contract has a specific requirement they ask for in the order. The manufacturer would like to not risk an LEO using this round and having it be outside the department requirements and the blame going to the manufacturer for such a round being outside the department requirements for a duty load. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. The "Not for LE use" sticker is a save your ass liability sticker, so that if an LEO uses the round in a shoot, and after investigation it is deemed the ammo falls outside the very specific department requirements for velocity, they won't be liable for any damages because it was marked to not be used in that capacity. Same deal as the following. __________________ No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. -Thomas Jefferson You can trust to luck or fate if you want but as for me, I carry a Glock.

October 18th, 2009, 02:04 PM	#9
automatic slim Distinguished Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: The western edge of The Confederacy Posts: 1,222	Just to play it safe, I would test fire a few. __________________ "First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand." Edge of Darkness

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October 18th, 2009, 01:36 AM	#2
NC Bullseye Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NC Foothills Posts: 161	They were rejected from the assembly line for some reason. Could be cosmetic or could be functional (low powder charge, primer set, etc). It'd be wisest to use for range as noted. Will they have problems? Probably not. Worth betting your life to save a few bucks on SD ammo? Not for me.

October 18th, 2009, 02:31 PM	#10
walrusjax Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 26	Thank you all for such great information. The reason that I bought this bulk pack is because I want to go fire 100 rounds at the range to make sure I get no jams, etc. I have heard from numerous sources that you should never carry an ammo that you haven't fired at least 100 rounds, so even if it is just for practice, it serves my purpose and gives me plenty more to occasionally shoot to make sure I stay acquainted with it. Also, before I posted here, I sent an e-mail to Speer with the lot and container number of my box of ammo and asked them for an explanation. Once I hear back, I will post their response so that all can benefit from that info.