Ummm, hmmm. Wait, what? - Page 2

buckeyeLCPL · October 23rd, 2009, 06:57 PM

JD, in one theater you are correct about the lack of medical care or taking away their dead/wounded buddies, the other one, not so much.

Nova, thats why we train to hit vital areas, and to hit our target until the threat is done. There are precautions I won't go into here on how to approach an enemy that has been shot.

10thmtn · October 23rd, 2009, 10:23 PM

In addition to the legal issues, the military likes FMJ because it feeds better, and because it penetrates cover better than an expanding bullet.

cmdrdredd · October 23rd, 2009, 10:24 PM

That's why .50BMG is a nice round to use for snipers. It's FMJ, but the velocity and the weight it has as it passes through the enemy is pretty devistating.

Bart · October 24th, 2009, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnklFungus

Umm, isn't war about killing? I personally think war is insane, but this just seems quite odd, to be concerned about hurting someone you are trying to kill?

Getting into ballistics and what is and isn't inhumane, or which bullet kills better than the other is a never ending debate. Except For Ending Slavery, Fascism, Nazism, and Communism, WAR has Never Solved Anything. War may be hell, but IMO, far from insane.

____________________________
Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Anyone Who Threatens It.

EW3 · October 24th, 2009, 08:47 AM

The Russians have found ways around the Hague Convention:

Quote:

The Russian military issue 5N7-specification 5.45mm bullets are a somewhat complex full metal jacket design. The 56 gr (3.6 g) boattail projectile has a gilding-metal-clad jacket. The unhardened steel core is covered by a thin lead coating which does not fill the entire point end, leaving a hollow cavity inside the nose. The bullet is cut to length during the manufacturing process to give the correct weight. The base of the bullet is tapered to reduce drag and there is a small lead plug crimped in place in the base of the bullet.

The lead plug, in combination with the air space at the point of the bullet, has the effect of moving the bullet's center of gravity to the rear; the hollow air space also makes the bullet's point prone to deformation when the bullet strikes anything solid, inducing yaw. The brown-lacquered steel case is Berdan-primed. Its 39.37 mm (1.55 in) length makes it slightly longer than the 7.62x39mm case which measures exactly 38.60 mm (1.52 in). The primer has a copper cup and is sealed with a heavy red lacquer. The propellant charge is a ball powder with similar burning characteristics to the WC 844 powder used in 5.56x45mm NATO ammunition.

The 50 gr (3.2 g) tracer projectile has a shorter ogival profile and is green-tipped. The amount of igniter material provides for a burn of up to 800 m.

5.45x39mm 5N7 Cartridge Sectional Drawing
A: projectile jacket
B: steel core
C: hollow point
D: lead inlay
E: propelling charge

5.45x39mm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cuda66 · October 24th, 2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EW3

The Russians have found ways around the Hague Convention:

5.45x39mm 5N7 Cartridge Sectional Drawing
A: projectile jacket
B: steel core
C: hollow point
D: lead inlay
E: propelling charge

5.45x39mm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So has the US--we call it OTM (Open Tip Match).

Since the round isn't designed to expand and cause "more suffering", it's technically legal.

10thmtn · October 24th, 2009, 05:13 PM

The Afghans called that the "poison bullet" when they were fighting the Soviets.

DWeezy · October 25th, 2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD

Say what?

Never mind, I just looked it up....Personally I think that one shot the butt is BS, but yeah that's why they were PO'd. Too bad for them.

I don't know the story, but a bullet shot in the butt that hits the femoral artery would kill very quickly. This would work with any bullet.

Damion · November 1st, 2009, 11:43 PM

again i find myself wanting to say i agree with buckeye and Mr. Buckeye you are correct

paul1968mcr · November 2nd, 2009, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10thmtn

In addition to the legal issues, the military likes FMJ because it feeds better, and because it penetrates cover better than an expanding bullet.

Nothing to do with cost then? LMAO.

October 23rd, 2009, 06:57 PM	#11
buckeyeLCPL VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Somestanplace Posts: 2,996	JD, in one theater you are correct about the lack of medical care or taking away their dead/wounded buddies, the other one, not so much. Nova, thats why we train to hit vital areas, and to hit our target until the threat is done. There are precautions I won't go into here on how to approach an enemy that has been shot. __________________ Fortes Fortuna Juvat We're mules lad. Mules that kill. TJR

October 23rd, 2009, 10:23 PM	#12
10thmtn Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Posts: 664	In addition to the legal issues, the military likes FMJ because it feeds better, and because it penetrates cover better than an expanding bullet. __________________ The People ARE the Militia, and have a DUTY (not just a right) to be both armed and proficient in the use of said arms. Ex-Army officer; Hurricane Andrew Relief, FL, 1992; Operation Restore Hope, Somalia, 1993 NRA Life Member; Range Safety Officer Glock 26, CT Laserguard, Smartcarry

October 23rd, 2009, 10:24 PM	#13
cmdrdredd Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 698	That's why .50BMG is a nice round to use for snipers. It's FMJ, but the velocity and the weight it has as it passes through the enemy is pretty devistating. __________________ No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. -Thomas Jefferson You can trust to luck or fate if you want but as for me, I carry a Glock.

October 24th, 2009, 05:13 PM	#17
10thmtn Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Posts: 664	The Afghans called that the "poison bullet" when they were fighting the Soviets. __________________ The People ARE the Militia, and have a DUTY (not just a right) to be both armed and proficient in the use of said arms. Ex-Army officer; Hurricane Andrew Relief, FL, 1992; Operation Restore Hope, Somalia, 1993 NRA Life Member; Range Safety Officer Glock 26, CT Laserguard, Smartcarry

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November 1st, 2009, 11:43 PM	#19
Damion Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Fort Lewis,WA Posts: 81	again i find myself wanting to say i agree with buckeye and Mr. Buckeye you are correct