Extreme Shock!! gimickie..or the real deal. - Page 2

razor02097 · November 6th, 2009, 08:23 AM

Fragmenting bullet will give you the best bet on stoping power and underpenetration. However most times any bullet anywhere on the target will be enough to stop them. Sometimes not but that is why you have multiple rounds at your disposal. Choosing the ammo you carry can be tricky. Look at ballistic charts instead of videos showing off the bullet. Hard data and numbers can't lie.

I have heard great things about Glaser safty slugs. They use shot instead of solid metals to make up the mass of the bullet.

Cuda66 · November 6th, 2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razor02097

Fragmenting bullet will give you the best bet on stoping power and underpenetration. However most times any bullet anywhere on the target will be enough to stop them. Sometimes not but that is why you have multiple rounds at your disposal. Choosing the ammo you carry can be tricky. Look at ballistic charts instead of videos showing off the bullet. Hard data and numbers can't lie.

I have heard great things about Glaser safty slugs. They use shot instead of solid metals to make up the mass of the bullet.

Well, you're half right...about the underpenetration part. As for "stopping power"...unlearn that myth as soon as possible.

Any bullet anywhere near the target is NOT "usually enough to stop". Look at the Miami shootout--a perfectly placed round didn't penetrate deep enough (stopped an inch short of the heart) to make a stop, and FBI agents died as a result.

Glasers are just as bad as extreme shock. Don't believe the hype.

varob · November 6th, 2009, 01:22 PM

I totally agree. Go with the hard data, not the fancy animation.

Any of the good LE or PD rounds should work just fine.

Janq · November 6th, 2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frogbones

Hey Janq...that links tells me that there are no matches and for me to try different terminology.

I wasn't sure if it would work or not, which is why I provided as backup the keyword search terms I'd used.

Run a search using exactly those keywords.
There has been a lot of discussion on this as in the recent past alone. Pages worth, per thread.

- Janq

Janq · November 6th, 2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinistrMalic

I just came to my senses and abandoned my exotics. Go with what the LEO community shoots.

Not to say that all exotics are garbage as a function of being 'exotic'.

A very notable example is the Barnes 'DPX' projectile as is loaded for defense purpose by Corbon.
A solid copper projectile when when it debuted was also considered to be 'exotic', and still is by folk not yet up on modern and latest technology. DPX has been out nearly a decade now in rifle and pistol chamberings.

Not many LEO depts. in specific use it as an issue ammunition, but that does not have any direct affect on the facts of the rounds performance.
Oppositely there are still agencys running Federal Hydra-Shock projectile and others allowing officers to use revolvers rather than high(er) capacity SA simply because old timey contrarians and Luddites do not wish to keep up with the times.

I would not personally think nor advise, to a friend, that going by what local/regional or state PD use is the best or even right choice. They have other factors at play including politics.

Do your research, run figures too...and buy a box or three to real world test for yourself as at different media.
Media being not trees and pumpkins...simply because I know of no human beings made of bark or who have skin and internals akin to that of a pumpkin.

Do your own homework on any round you might be willing to stake your life on.
You owe as much to yourself and to those who may be left to pay for your hospitalization and/or funeral bills.

$0.02 Street

- Janq

razor02097 · November 6th, 2009, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuda66

Well, you're half right...about the underpenetration part. As for "stopping power"...unlearn that myth as soon as possible.

Any bullet anywhere near the target is NOT "usually enough to stop". Look at the Miami shootout--a perfectly placed round didn't penetrate deep enough (stopped an inch short of the heart) to make a stop, and FBI agents died as a result.

Glasers are just as bad as extreme shock. Don't believe the hype.

I know what you are saying but because the criminals had body armor on the situation was very different. What I ment was the fragmenting bullet will transfer all the energy the bullet has to offer in a very short distance into the target. Stopping power may have not been the proper term for what I ment.

JD · November 6th, 2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janq

I wasn't sure if it would work or not, which is why I provided as backup the keyword search terms I'd used.

Run a search using exactly those keywords.
There has been a lot of discussion on this as in the recent past alone. Pages worth, per thread.

- Janq

See post #7.

ibesarcasm · November 6th, 2009, 04:13 PM

I'm gonna chime in with this........ do your own tests, but also consider your locations........ Frangable rounds are great for close distance where penatration of walls/objects are primary concern...... apartment buildings come to mind. Nothing says you cant have diff ammo. for diff areas you carry. Again, I'll make the statement "if you only have a hammer, every problem becomes a nail."
Nothing says you cant have a frangable round for the house or apartment or whatever if you live in such an enviroment, and a (insert fav. round here) for carry outside your home. Would I shoot a 12ga with buck shot for my home defense if I lived in an apartment? Do I want to shoot a hydra, or slivertip or whatever for home defense in an apartment?
Prolly not. Simply because I DON"T KNOW what is behind my target.

So, frangable rounds DO have their place..... and with anyone who KNOWS about SD...... you have to have lots of tools in the tool box......a hammer just won't work in every case. Just as you have multiple weapons for multiple scenarios, you are allowed to have multiple rounds for multiple areas of carry.
Nothing wrong with a mag of frang. for home and a mag of HP for elsewhere.......... IF that is the scenario you live in.
And I would question anyone who thought HPs or slugs, or 00buck would be thier round of choice for just such an enviroment. So there you have it.......
Diff rounds for diff scenarios......

Cuda66 · November 6th, 2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razor02097

I know what you are saying but because the criminals had body armor on the situation was very different. What I ment was the fragmenting bullet will transfer all the energy the bullet has to offer in a very short distance into the target. Stopping power may have not been the proper term for what I ment.

Sorry, but you may have the North Hollywood shootout and the "Miami Massacre" confused; Platt and Matix were not armored.

And energy transfer is not what determines a bullet's effecacy...transfer all the energy you want, but if deep structure/blood bearing organs/CNS aren't damaged, it may as well have been a miss...

digitalexplr · November 6th, 2009, 09:25 PM

Here you go:

The Box O' Truth #23 - ExtremeShock™ Ammo and the Box O' Truth - Page 1

November 6th, 2009, 08:23 AM	#11
razor02097 Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: ohio Posts: 121	Fragmenting bullet will give you the best bet on stoping power and underpenetration. However most times any bullet anywhere on the target will be enough to stop them. Sometimes not but that is why you have multiple rounds at your disposal. Choosing the ammo you carry can be tricky. Look at ballistic charts instead of videos showing off the bullet. Hard data and numbers can't lie. I have heard great things about Glaser safty slugs. They use shot instead of solid metals to make up the mass of the bullet. __________________ We the people want a regulated government. They the government want a regulated people. The only thing keeping government from getting what they want is our rights. Don't let them take our rights away!

November 6th, 2009, 01:22 PM	#13
varob Distinguished Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,275	I totally agree. Go with the hard data, not the fancy animation. Any of the good LE or PD rounds should work just fine. __________________ Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see! -Tony Soprano

November 6th, 2009, 04:13 PM	#18
ibesarcasm Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 198	I'm gonna chime in with this........ do your own tests, but also consider your locations........ Frangable rounds are great for close distance where penatration of walls/objects are primary concern...... apartment buildings come to mind. Nothing says you cant have diff ammo. for diff areas you carry. Again, I'll make the statement "if you only have a hammer, every problem becomes a nail." Nothing says you cant have a frangable round for the house or apartment or whatever if you live in such an enviroment, and a (insert fav. round here) for carry outside your home. Would I shoot a 12ga with buck shot for my home defense if I lived in an apartment? Do I want to shoot a hydra, or slivertip or whatever for home defense in an apartment? Prolly not. Simply because I DON"T KNOW what is behind my target. So, frangable rounds DO have their place..... and with anyone who KNOWS about SD...... you have to have lots of tools in the tool box......a hammer just won't work in every case. Just as you have multiple weapons for multiple scenarios, you are allowed to have multiple rounds for multiple areas of carry. Nothing wrong with a mag of frang. for home and a mag of HP for elsewhere.......... IF that is the scenario you live in. And I would question anyone who thought HPs or slugs, or 00buck would be thier round of choice for just such an enviroment. So there you have it....... Diff rounds for diff scenarios...... __________________ Sarcasm - Just one of the many services I provide! Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

November 6th, 2009, 09:25 PM	#20
digitalexplr Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Jefferson City, MO Posts: 656	Here you go: The Box O' Truth #23 - ExtremeShock™ Ammo and the Box O' Truth - Page 1 __________________ XD9sc XD40 Service Mossberg 590a1 NRA Life Member

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