Winchester 38 special +p+ ranger black talon ammunition

rimfiredude · May 19th, 2006, 11:53 PM

i recently bought a 38 special revolver

, a taurus ultralight 2 inch snubbie my first revolver

and was just surfing the net and found some of this ammunition on gunbroker, and was wanting to know if anybody out there had any experience with this round in a two inch revolver? how it expands? is this a good self defense round or not .if not can you experienced shooters give any advice. any answers would be appreciated!

craig45 · May 20th, 2006, 12:10 AM

i haven't tried that, but the speer 135 gr. gold dot is made just for snubbys.

Bud White · May 20th, 2006, 12:26 AM

I think i would avoid any +P+ ammo

rimfiredude · May 20th, 2006, 09:10 AM

why would you stay away from +p+ ammo because of the recoil?taurus website says that my revolver is rated for +p.any info would be greatly appreciated.

craig45 · May 20th, 2006, 09:27 AM

recoil is one reason. ability to control the gun/quick follow up shots are another.

i've tried .357's in my snubby, but do not like them. more recoil/muzzle blast make the gun hard to control and it beats my hand to death.

if a gun is difficult to shoot, most people will not practice with it, and that's bad in my book.

besides, why beat your gun and yourself to death for a minimal increase in power.

ymmv, but i'd rather be able to hit the target 2 or 3 times quickly with .38+p's than rely on hitting it once maybe with a .357.

HighVelocity · May 20th, 2006, 09:38 AM

The 110gr +p+ 38spl makes a lot of noise and produce a nice big fireball, especially when coming from a snubbie.
I don't think you're gaining any performance advantage over other proven cartridges. Speer Gold dot 135gr +P short barrel ammo is what I carry in my snub. (will post chronograph data from upcoming range trip)

Of course, the old tried and true Remington or Federal 158gr Lead Semi-Wadcutter Hollowpoint is always a good choice. That ammo is getting harder to find in my area at least.

absit · May 20th, 2006, 09:50 AM

Is it Black Talon or Ranger T? There's a BIG difference. There's no such thing as Ranger Black Talon.

Black Talon is an older generation hollowpoint and has been known to clog (as all older hollowpoints do) when hitting a clothed target.

Ranger T is the new stuff, the good stuff, the "Law Enforcement Ammunition" stuff, it's what I use as defense ammo in my 1911.

Also, staying away from +P+ has more to do than being rated for +P or recoil, +P+ has no limits, period. It could be loaded to ANY pressure. There's a reason no firearm is ever rated for +P+.

HighVelocity · May 20th, 2006, 09:54 AM

Quote:

There's no such thing as Ranger Black Talon.

Yes, there USED to be. The Ranger SXT line that came in 50 round boxes and used a black lubilox coated bullet in a brass case.
It was eventually replaced by the T line which is a copper colored bullet in a nickel case.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs12.htm

Quote:

Black Talon SXT: The original Black Talon handgun bullet. It was introduced in 1991. The cartridge consists of a black colored bullet seated in a nickel-plated case. The black paint-like coating on the bullet is a Winchester proprietary lubricant called Lubalox. The bullet has six serrations on the rim of the hollowpoint cavity (meplat), and six talons. The talons deploy when the bullet expands. They are described by Winchester as: "six uniform, radial jacket petals with perpendicular tips." Winchester voluntarily discontinued sales of Black Talon SXT to the general public in late 1993/early 1994 due to intense negative media and political pressure. Some political activists derisively referred to it as "Black Felon" ammo. Black Talon is packaged in boxes of 20 cartridges.

Ranger SXT: Ranger SXT is a less expensive version of the original Black Talon cartridge intended for the law enforcement market. It consists of a black Lubalox coated bullet seated in a brass case. The bullet has six serrations on its meplat, and six talons. Ranger SXT is packaged in boxes of 50 cartridges marked "Law Enforcement Ammunition."

Supreme SXT: Redesigned "civilian" version of the original Black Talon bullet. The cartridge consists of a copper-jacketed bullet seated in a nickel-plated case. The bullet has eight serrations on its meplat, and no talons. Supreme SXT is packaged in boxes of 20 cartridges.

frankmako · May 21st, 2006, 12:24 AM

i carry +p+ hydro-shock in my s & w model 60. this is what they issue to us for our backup guns. that is if you carry a wheel gun as as "bug".

P95Carry · May 21st, 2006, 12:38 AM

I used to carry Corbon 110 +P 38 spl in my SP-101 - it is ''brisk''

, tho I do like to be traditional in truth and have a 158 grainer at my disposal!

Steve Camp extolls the 158 Rem SWC IIRC - slower but heavier and proven to be ''quite effective"

May 19th, 2006, 11:53 PM	#1
rimfiredude Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: kentucky Posts: 79	Winchester 38 special +p+ ranger black talon ammunition i recently bought a 38 special revolver , a taurus ultralight 2 inch snubbie my first revolver and was just surfing the net and found some of this ammunition on gunbroker, and was wanting to know if anybody out there had any experience with this round in a two inch revolver? how it expands? is this a good self defense round or not .if not can you experienced shooters give any advice. any answers would be appreciated!

May 21st, 2006, 12:38 AM	#10
P95Carry Assistant Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South West PA Posts: 25,366	I used to carry Corbon 110 +P 38 spl in my SP-101 - it is ''brisk'' , tho I do like to be traditional in truth and have a 158 grainer at my disposal! Steve Camp extolls the 158 Rem SWC IIRC - slower but heavier and proven to be ''quite effective" __________________ Chris - P95 NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. "To own a gun and assume that you are armed is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!." If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

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May 20th, 2006, 12:10 AM	#2
craig45 Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: crestview fl Posts: 472	i haven't tried that, but the speer 135 gr. gold dot is made just for snubbys.

May 20th, 2006, 12:26 AM	#3
Bud White VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 17,476	I think i would avoid any +P+ ammo

May 20th, 2006, 09:10 AM	#4
rimfiredude Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: kentucky Posts: 79	why would you stay away from +p+ ammo because of the recoil?taurus website says that my revolver is rated for +p.any info would be greatly appreciated.

May 20th, 2006, 09:27 AM	#5
craig45 Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: crestview fl Posts: 472	recoil is one reason. ability to control the gun/quick follow up shots are another. i've tried .357's in my snubby, but do not like them. more recoil/muzzle blast make the gun hard to control and it beats my hand to death. if a gun is difficult to shoot, most people will not practice with it, and that's bad in my book. besides, why beat your gun and yourself to death for a minimal increase in power. ymmv, but i'd rather be able to hit the target 2 or 3 times quickly with .38+p's than rely on hitting it once maybe with a .357.

May 20th, 2006, 09:38 AM	#6
HighVelocity Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: TEXAS Posts: 248	The 110gr +p+ 38spl makes a lot of noise and produce a nice big fireball, especially when coming from a snubbie. I don't think you're gaining any performance advantage over other proven cartridges. Speer Gold dot 135gr +P short barrel ammo is what I carry in my snub. (will post chronograph data from upcoming range trip) Of course, the old tried and true Remington or Federal 158gr Lead Semi-Wadcutter Hollowpoint is always a good choice. That ammo is getting harder to find in my area at least.

May 20th, 2006, 09:50 AM	#7
absit Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Davenport, IA Posts: 110	Is it Black Talon or Ranger T? There's a BIG difference. There's no such thing as Ranger Black Talon. Black Talon is an older generation hollowpoint and has been known to clog (as all older hollowpoints do) when hitting a clothed target. Ranger T is the new stuff, the good stuff, the "Law Enforcement Ammunition" stuff, it's what I use as defense ammo in my 1911. Also, staying away from +P+ has more to do than being rated for +P or recoil, +P+ has no limits, period. It could be loaded to ANY pressure. There's a reason no firearm is ever rated for +P+.

May 21st, 2006, 12:24 AM	#9
frankmako Distinguished Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 1,890	i carry +p+ hydro-shock in my s & w model 60. this is what they issue to us for our backup guns. that is if you carry a wheel gun as as "bug".