Pay it forward: In The Gravest Extreme, by M. Ayoob - Page 3

threefeathers · July 18th, 2009, 10:44 PM

I understand that we all want our friends to read this doesn't Mas deserve some royalties for his work? I give copies to friends who are in financial problems but not to those who can pay. I guess I'm a spoil sport.

pax · July 18th, 2009, 11:21 PM

threefeathers ~

I wouldn't worry too much about that. Mas absolutely deserves royalties for his work, no question there. But this probably won't hurt his sales in the slightest. My bet is that 90% of the people who read this book will realize, after they read it, that they really need to get a copy of it to keep in their own library! It's got such valuable and lasting information in it that reading it as a borrowed book for the first time doesn't mean Mas has lost a sale.

Kathy

Faitmaker · July 18th, 2009, 11:52 PM

threefeathers,
This is one book being passed around by the members of this forum. It is no different that being borrowed from a library. Mas received the royalties for this book and it is completely legal to loan a book or even give a book to someone. I'm not sure what your point is?

ccw9mm · July 19th, 2009, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by threefeathers

I understand that we all want our friends to read this doesn't Mas deserve some royalties for his work?

He does, did with this copy, and has with every copy that libraries purchase for their "multiple use" business model.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pax

Mas absolutely deserves royalties for his work, no question there. But this probably won't hurt his sales in the slightest. My bet is that 90% of the people who read this book will realize, after they read it, that they really need to get a copy of it to keep in their own library!

I'm certain of it.

I've purchased dozens of copies over the past 20yrs and have passed out nearly all of them to folks who needed to read it. Many of them then did much the same thing, with others.

So, this one copy's making a few rounds. It won't last for reading, handling and shipment by 25 folks, but it's a good bet that a solid percentage of people will spring for a $12 copy for the library. Mas has some insights that simply need to be read, experienced, understood. The book is the last-expensive way to get a good dose, while LFI 1/2/3/4 is the way of the "deep dip."

For those who love the book and want to re-read and study further, it's well worth acquiring a copy to keep.

BikerRN · August 7th, 2009, 05:49 AM

Hey all, I realize I'm late to the party, but I wanted to add something.

Since you are signing the inside cover of the book, that along with a print-out of this forum thread could be used as legal proof that you had in fact read the book, or at least had access to it.

I would, and please bear in mind this in not legal advice, photocopy the part you sign, with the page giving the title and author of the book. You can also keep the receipt from when you mail it off, listing the title of course.

This is just a thought.

Biker

Editted to add: I already have a copy, along with my qualification target, certificate and a photo of me and Mas as proof of attendance to an LFI course, so I'm not signing up for the book.

Faitmaker · August 7th, 2009, 07:54 AM

Biker,
Forgive me but your post has left me confuse. I will assume that I am missing something, so take this post with that in mind. I am not posturing.

Why would I need proof that I read the book? Who am I convincing?

ccw9mm · August 7th, 2009, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faitmaker

Why would I need proof that I read the book? Who am I convincing?

Should you ever find yourself in legal hot water as a result of your actions in a defensive shooting, the legal schmucks who hold the power to charge and convict you of violent crimes will be the ones with crosshairs on your forehead. Some say (including M. Ayoob and others) that having documented, verifiable evidence of training can help blunt some of those dishonorable attacks on what you knew, when you knew it, how you were trained.

Faitmaker · August 7th, 2009, 03:27 PM

Really? Reading this book could potentially offer me some legal protection with the court?

BikerRN · August 7th, 2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faitmaker

Really? Reading this book could potentially offer me some legal protection with the court?

While I wouldn't use the words "legal protection" I do think exculpatory evidence in your favor would be appropriate.

It's a way of showing when you knew something and how you knew it.

Biker

BikerRN · August 7th, 2009, 03:46 PM

Mr. Threefeathers,

If anyone was making a profit off Mas' book(s) without royalties being paid I have no doubt that he would be against that. I do not think he is against the sharing of information, as long as proper credit is given where it is due.

I had a chat with Mas about this, and a paper I wrote on Officer Involved Shootings almost twenty years ago. I always felt that I just copied Mas. When I talked with him about it this year, after sending him a much delayed copy of the paper, he had no problem with it.

I had qoated him, and gave credit where due, and in the bibliography. I told him that I didn't think my paper was "up to par" and he told me it was "pretty good". He then told me, "The information is there to be used."

Being as this book has been bought and paid for, the royalties have been paid, and nobody is trying to claim the work as their own, I don't see a problem, but Mas would be the one to best answer that. I loan out copies of the same book to people. Sometimes it's the "push" they need to seek out more formal training.

Instead of us debating something like this why don't one of us go to the source and ask Mas? I nominate you Mr. Threefeathers, since I know you talk with him more than I do.

Take care and stay safe,

Biker

July 18th, 2009, 11:21 PM	#22
pax Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: WA state Posts: 341	threefeathers ~ I wouldn't worry too much about that. Mas absolutely deserves royalties for his work, no question there. But this probably won't hurt his sales in the slightest. My bet is that 90% of the people who read this book will realize, after they read it, that they really need to get a copy of it to keep in their own library! It's got such valuable and lasting information in it that reading it as a borrowed book for the first time doesn't mean Mas has lost a sale. Kathy __________________ Managing Editor of Concealed Carry Magazine My website: Cornered Cat Buy my book! Lessons from Armed America, with Mark Walters

July 18th, 2009, 11:52 PM	#23
Faitmaker Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 310	threefeathers, This is one book being passed around by the members of this forum. It is no different that being borrowed from a library. Mas received the royalties for this book and it is completely legal to loan a book or even give a book to someone. I'm not sure what your point is? __________________ When I leave in the morning, I take all my rights with me. - Glenn Beck NRA Life Member / CHL Holder / Threeper

August 7th, 2009, 05:49 AM	#25
BikerRN VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: State of Discombobulation Posts: 3,768	Hey all, I realize I'm late to the party, but I wanted to add something. Since you are signing the inside cover of the book, that along with a print-out of this forum thread could be used as legal proof that you had in fact read the book, or at least had access to it. I would, and please bear in mind this in not legal advice, photocopy the part you sign, with the page giving the title and author of the book. You can also keep the receipt from when you mail it off, listing the title of course. This is just a thought. Biker Editted to add: I already have a copy, along with my qualification target, certificate and a photo of me and Mas as proof of attendance to an LFI course, so I'm not signing up for the book. __________________ If I knew I was going to get in to a gunfight I most ceratinly wouln't bring a handgun or two, and I don't know any smart person that does. Last edited by BikerRN; August 7th, 2009 at 05:52 AM.. Reason: see addition

August 7th, 2009, 07:54 AM	#26
Faitmaker Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 310	Biker, Forgive me but your post has left me confuse. I will assume that I am missing something, so take this post with that in mind. I am not posturing. Why would I need proof that I read the book? Who am I convincing? __________________ When I leave in the morning, I take all my rights with me. - Glenn Beck NRA Life Member / CHL Holder / Threeper

August 7th, 2009, 03:27 PM	#28
Faitmaker Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 310	Really? Reading this book could potentially offer me some legal protection with the court? __________________ When I leave in the morning, I take all my rights with me. - Glenn Beck NRA Life Member / CHL Holder / Threeper

July 18th, 2009, 10:44 PM	#21
threefeathers Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 519	I understand that we all want our friends to read this doesn't Mas deserve some royalties for his work? I give copies to friends who are in financial problems but not to those who can pay. I guess I'm a spoil sport.

August 7th, 2009, 03:46 PM	#30
BikerRN VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: State of Discombobulation Posts: 3,768	Mr. Threefeathers, If anyone was making a profit off Mas' book(s) without royalties being paid I have no doubt that he would be against that. I do not think he is against the sharing of information, as long as proper credit is given where it is due. I had a chat with Mas about this, and a paper I wrote on Officer Involved Shootings almost twenty years ago. I always felt that I just copied Mas. When I talked with him about it this year, after sending him a much delayed copy of the paper, he had no problem with it. I had qoated him, and gave credit where due, and in the bibliography. I told him that I didn't think my paper was "up to par" and he told me it was "pretty good". He then told me, "The information is there to be used." Being as this book has been bought and paid for, the royalties have been paid, and nobody is trying to claim the work as their own, I don't see a problem, but Mas would be the one to best answer that. I loan out copies of the same book to people. Sometimes it's the "push" they need to seek out more formal training. Instead of us debating something like this why don't one of us go to the source and ask Mas? I nominate you Mr. Threefeathers, since I know you talk with him more than I do. Take care and stay safe, Biker __________________ If I knew I was going to get in to a gunfight I most ceratinly wouln't bring a handgun or two, and I don't know any smart person that does.

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