ccw9mm

Problem: My new PM9 has a smooth slide when it's normally operating. However, about four times out of five, I cannot do a field strip and get the slide to remove. It just jams up. (Yes, I know about the trigger-release step.)

As well, during reassembly the slide refuses to slide all the way back at least half the time. Haven't spoken with Kahr, yet. I had figured to send about 500 rds through, first, then reevaluate. I've got about half that through the gun, at this point.

It's the strangest thing I've seen. Complete hang-up on the slide's manual cycling, and flat refusal to remove during disassembly. When it's shooting, it's just fine. But take it apart ...

Did an initial strip, cleaning and lube. Shot some lower-power FMJ to get things loose (~50rds). Then, opened up with 100 JHP, then another 100 JHP +P. Stripped it after every 30-40 rounds or so. Hung up most every time. After the range session, I simply sat there doing field strips, getting "stuck" about 80% of the time.

Question: Any suggestions, on this slide/frame rail problem? What to look for; what to ensure doesn't exist (ie, "burrs" in the rails); possible missing/bent/broken part; something else?

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Thoughts: Justifiable self defense.
Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

dimmak

First thing I'd look for is a Burr on the Slide or other metal components...

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js

Just recently (this week) I have had some issues with my pm9 slide sticking. I have had trouble field stripping it. It seems when I get it just right it come apart, but other times it just feels wedged. Upon inspection I can't find any reason for it. The other problem is when the magazine is loaded to capacity, the slide wants to stick back like its locked when you try to load the chamber. The gun has never FTF (600 rounds), but it still makes me feel a little uneasy about the quality.
I also own a Glock26 (wifes gun) and I am strongly considering trading the pm9. The Kahr is such a great carry size for my attire, but I'm losing confidence in it.

J.S.

ccw9mm

Yup. Burr/gouging does exist ... though not in the metal. In the plastic of the frame's rails.

The first and only range session was last Saturday, during which time I put 250 rounds through it, including: 100 rounds of Remington/UMC FMJ 115gr, and 150 rounds of Federal HydraShok 124gr +P.

I just took some photos and sent an email to the Service group. In the next day or so, I should get a reply and we'll go from there.

CLICK HERE for a link to two photos showing some of the gouging in the frame's rails.

Failure of the slide to remove, reinstall, "rack" ... this was evident from new-in-the-box condition in advance of any rounds having been fired. Should have field stripped it at the shop as I purchased it. I have done this with every other pistol I've purchased, but this was the first I picked up without doing that validation step. Dumb.

During a field strip, the PM9 requires flicking the trigger when racking the slide back, to allow the slide to come smoothly off the rails. Works smoothly, when it works. Jams up nearly every time, though.

We'll see what the tech dept. has to say. Can't imagine they'll like the gouging, thin curls of plastic being removed from the front/right slide on the frame, and inability of the slide to operate reliably.

I'm all for keeping the PM9 as a carry piece, but not this one if it's going to exhibit these problems. Yeah, am losing confidence in this one, given these early troubles. We'll see what the tech dept. has to say and whether they can find a "solution" that results in a PM9 lasting a thousand rounds or two without visible damage/wear.

There aren't very many other pistols with the size/features of the PM9. I'm also vetting a KelTec P3AT 380ACP, now, as well. Distinct differences in apparent quality of parts, general operation. But, where the rubber meets the road, it's got to operation 100% to be carried. Whichever one hits 1000 rounds reliably gets the nod as the backup carry piece.

Who knows: I might well end up going Glock for the micro/backup piece, but I despise the relative size, weight, feel of the smallest Glocks. They have never felt good in my hands, and I've never shot well with them. Otherwise, they are nice pistols.

__________________
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
Thoughts: Justifiable self defense.
Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
Beware the fury of an aroused democracy -- D. D. Eisenhower.
NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

BlueLion

If the pistol is new, send it back to the factory. Now I have come to expect some cosmetic imperfections, but on a pistol of that quality you should not be having such problems. In my opinion you worked to hard to be able to purchase the pistol to be having problems. Send it back, so they can do some work on it. I am not in favor of having a smith do the work if I bought the pistol new and the problems obviously are from the factory. Just my 2cents.

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Ti Carry

That is the problem with the PM model gun's. They tend to do this, I have seen pictures of some pretty bad frames doing this.

This is why I don't own a PM9/40 if anything I would get an MK series of a Kahr for a little BUG. I like them but they are known for this problem sometimes. It will get worse as well so take BL's advice and send it back now.


Ti

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nontypical

The reason I own a Bersa 380 instead of a Kahr is the amount of complaints I read about Kahrs like this. Very few Bersa'a have problems (that Iv'e read about in several forums) and they're at least half the cost.

ccw9mm

Contacted Dottie @ Kahr Tech Support.

Based on the two photos I sent and my description, the reply so far is: "There is really nothing wrong with your pistol. What you are experiencing is very normal with polymer pistols." I've got another range session this weekend. I'll be plinking with 100 rounds at a time, followed by a field-strip to monitor the chewing on the frame's rails. Clearly documenting the eroding condition will prove the clincher, I think. It's a problem ... and Kahr will see this soon. No worries.

Yes, the PM9 looks to be a great combination of size, weight, features. Ran a few hot +P's through @ ~410 ft-lbs and was amazed by how controllable it was for a pocket pistol. Definitely has potential, once I iron out the frame/slide alignment issues. What I don't want to do is go to the steel version, given the weight penalties, but that may well be the avenue if the polymer frame cannot pass muster. The more issues, which will result in all the more rounds during my process to validate reliability, which will speed the demise of any pistol on the "fringe". We'll see.

If it doesn't cut the mustard, then I will be looking at alternatives. Bersa what/which, might I ask??

Thanks, all.

- Michael

__________________
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
Thoughts: Justifiable self defense.
Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
Beware the fury of an aroused democracy -- D. D. Eisenhower.
NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

Beprepared

OMG, it truly torx me to hear this. I have the same problem with my PM9 and was wondering what I should do about it... and how Kahr would handle it. This type of response is not what I wanted to hear.

I think that I mentioned this in another thread sometime back but on my PM9, after firing a round, the slide moves forward and stops about 1/8" from battery. I have to push it closed. It did not do this when it was right out of the box but maybe after 200 rds. or so. I thought that perhaps I had under-lubed it but that does not seem to be the problem. I am fairly certain that it is due to these rough areas on the rails.

Dave James

Mine took just shy of 800 rounds before it was 100% good to go, but looking at the linked photos, shows wear and tear mine never had,,I would say that has to go back to Khar asap, looks to me as if the mould mite be out of wack causing the frame to torque a little in the making process.

I still love to carry my Khars but the more I see of the poly versions the more I have decided to stick with the all steel ones

hopetonvrshoot

Wow, how timely. I just shot the CW 40 and the new 45ACP thinking I wanted to retire my Model 27 Glock because of it's size. After shooting both I was left unimpressed and seriously wondering if they were anything more than large Ravens. The CW 40 went bang every time but was pretty inaccurate even for a new gun at 8 yards. The new 45 ACP jammed twice. One round unbelieveably ended up lodged back in the magazine after firing. I love the concept but if your life depends on it...will it perform? How much brake-in does a Kahr need?

don527

what was the outcome of the original posters frame rail issue?

I havent seen a PM9 close up but I would have thought the rail is metal.
Is the entire frame rail polymer on the PM9?

I've rented a MK9 and am totally impressed and will probably go with that. I thought about the polymers but have read spotty reviews. Hope they have addressed the issues.

Don

ccw9mm

No resolution, yet.

__________________
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
Thoughts: Justifiable self defense.
Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
Beware the fury of an aroused democracy -- D. D. Eisenhower.
NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

Bud White

None yet? Has Kahr had it this long or ya didn't sent it in yet?

peacefuljeffrey

I would speak with Kahr, and tell them that in a gun I intend for carrying for self defense, it is utterly unacceptable that I should have to "break it in" with over 500 rounds before I can bet my life on it.

In fact, I have to wonder why anyone would ever use any gun that did not work 100% correctly right from round one, as anything but a range/plinking gun. I surely would not carry a gun that needed such a break-in period as a defensive weapon.

Roundeyesamurai

I wouldn definitely heed the advice to call Kahr and send the pistol back. A friend of mine (over on Gl0ck T@lk) had this problem, and she found a very equitable solution by contacting them.

estimber

Kahr does openly advertise that atleast a 200 round break period is required with their pistols. I had never seen a company advertise this until they did. I too have a PM9 but unfortunately for this thread mine has been 100% from day 1 and I bought one in the "first run" (against my better judgement from previously owning a HORRIBLE first run P40). I am suprised to see Kahr's reaction to your customer service problem. When I had a CRAPPY P40 they were all to helpful to include 2 trips to the factory on their shipping dime. I had hoped the plagues P40 problems had been worked out on future polymer pistol from them but now I wonder. I would send the pistol back, don't call them and ask them, just call them and get a RA# and send it back. Put a letter in the box with the pistol explaining what the problem is and insist that they fix it! I have owned ton's of pistols over the years and every so often I have had to send one back to the factory (it happens) but I always insisted that they fix it and stayed in contact with the factory to keep tabs on what was going on. Look at it this way, if you spent 550.00 to 600.00 for a mechaninc to fix your car and it was not right you would be standing at their doorstep jumping, kicking and screaming. Just becasue a factory is in another state should not matter.

Good luck in whatever you do, I hope that the pistol is fixed. I enjoy carrying mine and it has only taken a back seat to my 100% reliable 2G P3AT.

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Bando

The truth is that no gun is is 100% reliable. They are machines. The Kahrs are smaller than most, thus tighter tolerances. It is foolish to think any gun completely unreliable just because the manufacturer warns the consumer it needs some love. This is good business. If any manufacturer could make a gun that small and 100% reliable out of the box, they undoubtedly would have already. Kahr makes some good weapons, or they would already be out of business. If GLOCK or Kimber made one of these, It would be privy to the same physics. If you haven't had a defensive weapon jam on you, your not practicing enough.

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The Problem: When stupid people do stupid things, smart people end up getting killed.

ccw9mm

It's a law of mechanisms, I think. There is built-in variability in tolerances that can stack up in a specific gun such that it seems a lemon, while another example will stack in the other direction and seem perfect for a lifetime. The reality is, every other example of that gun beyond those two instances (extremes) will fall somewhere in the middle. I'm prepared for that.

What I'm not prepared for is non-improvement over a hard break-in period. Not in in a carry weapon. My first pistol took about 10K rounds of break-in before it began to feed everything, cycle perfectly and run smoothly. After that, it was darned near flawless. That gun (a Browning BDM 9mm) definitely worked itself into a groove.

This PM9 is more in a rut than a groove. Enough rounds have been sent through it, now, to show that it's not the specific load, pressure, style of ammo (ball, JHP). It's in need of adjustment, though I don't know what that will entail. Hopefully Kahr's resolution will cure the problems. Else, it's not going to be the BUG for me.

__________________
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
Thoughts: Justifiable self defense.
Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
Beware the fury of an aroused democracy -- D. D. Eisenhower.
NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

Bando

Wow, I just looked at the pictures. I missed them the first time through this thread. It looks like too much polymer around the slide, or some type of mis-alignment. Kahr will fix any problems and get you running good. If you don't get what you need from them, (you should though) try running some very fine sandpaper like 600 grit over the plastic part of the rails. I bet the polymer is sticking against metal when you manually engage the slide. My Kel-tec needed to lose a little extra plastic to run smooth too. The factory will fix it if your not so inclined to meddle. They might even throw something free in for the trouble, Of course you need to let them know this is troublesome.

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The Problem: When stupid people do stupid things, smart people end up getting killed.