How has your Kimber treated you? - Page 3

JerryM · July 7th, 2008, 10:48 PM

According to the poll 25% of owners had or have problems after break in. Not good enough for me. Another poll might investigate how long and how many trips to the factory it took to get one working at an acceptable level of reliability.

The one Kimber that I still have, a compact, went to the factory at least twice, and then I had to send it to a custom smith to get it acceptable. I do not consider that a good record for Kimber, but it is good enough to carry now. I sold the two full size models I had, but also had reliability troubles with both of them. They also finally were corrected until reliable.

Regards,
Jerry

Kerbouchard · July 7th, 2008, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryM

According to the poll 25% of owners had or have problems after break in. Not good enough for me. Another poll might investigate how long and how many trips to the factory it took to get one working at an acceptable level of reliability.

The one Kimber that I still have, a compact, went to the factory at least twice, and then I had to send it to a custom smith to get it acceptable. I do not consider that a good record for Kimber, but it is good enough to carry now. I sold the two full size models I had, but also had reliability troubles with both of them. They also finally were corrected until reliable.

Regards,
Jerry

Your math is different than mine...The way it reads to me is 68/73 people have never had a part break or have had to send it into the shop and out of the 5/73 that had to repair/replace a part, 3/5 of them have been perfect afterwards. That seems a lot higher of a percentile than some people would have you to believe.

I would say that a similar poll on just about any brand would return like results. There are many guns that are extraordinarily reliable with 9 out of 10 types of ammo, but if you give it that one 'kryptonian type' ammo, it will hiccup all day long. The poll did not address if those problems 'after break in' were ammo related, or magazine related(probably the most common), or user related(i.e. limp wristing).

The poll simply asked if there had been ANY problems after break in. By those standards, I would say my XD and most of the Glocks, and just about every other 1911 will fall into 'at least a problem' after break in. If you hand a new shooter of small stature a Glock, there is a decent chance there will be a fail to feed/fail to eject because of limp wristing.

I liked the poll and I especially liked the results. Yes, there are some problems with just about every machine you could ever own. If you ever check out a BMW/Porsche/camera/fishing/any type of forum, you are going to find people who had a certain problem with just about any product.

If the results of the poll do not satisfy you, then by all means, do not purchase a Kimber. But if you posted the same poll asking about an XD or a Glock or a Sig, I believe you would get very similar results.

Regards,
Kerb

SIXTO · July 8th, 2008, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint77

Fair enough, and its possible about the previous owner. I've no idea what they did with it. Though, there is no markes denoting anyone might have tinkered with it mechanically(doesnt mean they didnt)

The guy at Kimber who did the warranty work seemed to think it had 2 years of use on it. The slide was a bit worn on the outside, as in holster wear, especially on the edges. and the finish was a lot lighter then the new slide. however, on the inside, the ramp, the barrel, etc, had what looked like about 600 rounds of wear on it, if that. Im thinking the previous owner holstered it quite often, yet didn't fire it that much, and probably was frustrated with it, and traded it in.

Thats my semi educated guess, anyway.

Could be, I was just making a semi educated guess as well. Working behind the counter at one of the largest gun retailers in the country has exposed my to a lot of 1911 of all brands that were tinkered with by people who should even open their own coke bottles, then they blame the manufacture for making "junk" and it ends up in the used gun case.
Kimber has had their fair share of problems, but thats what happens when you try to fix whats not broke.

jonesy_26 · July 8th, 2008, 02:02 PM

I would also add that you might find a higher percentage of issues with the compact models of any lineup, Kimber included. A lot of engineering has gone into trying to make the 1911 platform work with the short barrels. They seem to require more tuning than your standard 5" modernized WW2 clone. Dual recoil spring setups, fancy guide rods, internal/external extraction. All have to be coordinated to allow proper function.

Remember that almost all of the function of a 1911 is done with SPRINGS. Safeties, trigger, hammer, firing pin, slide return after recoil, all governed by spring force. Even the extractor is just a spring with a fancy tip. If any one of those is not performing right, or does not react to a change you make (lighter loads etc), can cause some sort of failure. Couple that with the extremely tight tolerances, and there are quite a few possible failure modes. The break in period is designed to allow these parts to begin wearing together, to seat in. If there are issues beyond that period, that would cause for concern in my mind.

JerryM · July 8th, 2008, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerbouchard

Your math is different than mine...The way it reads to me is 68/73 people have never had a part break or have had to send it into the shop and out of the 5/73 that had to repair/replace a part, 3/5 of them have been perfect afterwards. That seems a lot higher of a percentile than some people would have you to believe.

I would say that a similar poll on just about any brand would return like results. There are many guns that are extraordinarily reliable with 9 out of 10 types of ammo, but if you give it that one 'kryptonian type' ammo, it will hiccup all day long. The poll did not address if those problems 'after break in' were ammo related, or magazine related(probably the most common), or user related(i.e. limp wristing).

The poll simply asked if there had been ANY problems after break in. By those standards, I would say my XD and most of the Glocks, and just about every other 1911 will fall into 'at least a problem' after break in. If you hand a new shooter of small stature a Glock, there is a decent chance there will be a fail to feed/fail to eject because of limp wristing.

I liked the poll and I especially liked the results. Yes, there are some problems with just about every machine you could ever own. If you ever check out a BMW/Porsche/camera/fishing/any type of forum, you are going to find people who had a certain problem with just about any product.

If the results of the poll do not satisfy you, then by all means, do not purchase a Kimber. But if you posted the same poll asking about an XD or a Glock or a Sig, I believe you would get very similar results.

Regards,
Kerb

Hi Kerb,
Out of 84 responses there were 20 who had problems after the break-in. That is 23.8%.
I am considering that problems are problems regardless of whether the gun required parts replaced or not.

I am convinced that we tend to be overly defensive regarding 1911s, and make excuses. It is always the magazine or a spring, or some ammo that the gun did not like. But a malfunction is so no matter the cause. I have not seen such problems with Glocks. I might add that one of my best friends is a Glock armorer, and was a 1911 fan, and a gunsmith. He goes to training classes where all brands of guns are used, and while there are malfunctions with most brands when large amounts of ammo are fired the Glocks have very few, and not anywhere near the number of problems shown in the poll. The LE agency he belongs to uses Glocks with very few problems.

Another of my friends was a police chief, and went to the Glocks some years ago. Problems are almost non-existent, but limp wristing is an occasional problem with the .40.

I only own one Glock, a G26, but in several thousand rounds it has malfunctioned only once early on and that was with a Cor Bon round. That is the only one and I shoot mostly reloads including HP and FMJ. It just always works. It did not take 200 rounds of expensive ammo to find that it was reliable.

There are a total of 6 1911s in my safe, and I don’t need another, but wouldn’t buy a Kimber. I prefer the SA due to the better CA, and in my opinion an equal or better gun.

Regards,
Jerry

SOLOLUCKY · July 9th, 2008, 09:42 AM

I carry the Raptor II and it has been flawless!! and a beautiful gun IMHO. Carry it every day. Is my IDPA gun. But to be honest, and I am no "gun connesuer"(sp) I can barely tell any difference in it than my Springer GI model. I know there is...$500 vs. $1100....but they are bith flawless shooters. But i am no expert.

CCWINNC · July 9th, 2008, 09:58 AM

47% of you have stated having problems. Why spend $1000 or more on a gun that has a 50% working rate. You would not buy a car with that many known problems. 50% is not reliable enough to carry in my book.

rodc13 · July 9th, 2008, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCWINNC

47% of you have stated having problems. Why spend $1000 or more on a gun that has a 50% working rate. You would not buy a car with that many known problems. 50% is not reliable enough to carry in my book.

1) Tiny sample.
2) Not scientific.
3) Not specific.
4) Not verified.

Just to mention a few problems with making decisions based upon an Internet poll.

Wasabi · July 9th, 2008, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodc13

1) Tiny sample.
2) Not scientific.
3) Not specific.
4) Not verified.

Just to mention a few problems with making decisions based upon an Internet poll.

Yeah, I agree. I spent way under a grand on my Ultra CDP II (mint used) and it's been very reliable. I guess I was lucky.

rodc13 · July 9th, 2008, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasabi

Yeah, I agree. I spent way under a grand on my Ultra CDP II (mint used) and it's been very reliable. I guess I was lucky.

That's been my experience, and I know quite a few folks with Kimbers who have had the same.

View Poll Results: How has your Kimber treated you?
Never had a single problem	53	48.62%
Had a few problems before "breaking it in"	28	25.69%
I have problems now and then after the break in period	15	13.76%
I have frequent problems even after the break in period	6	5.50%
It broke once but its been great since repair	6	5.50%
It broke a few times	3	2.75%
It breaks a lot, can't even use the thing	0	0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll

July 9th, 2008, 09:42 AM	#26
SOLOLUCKY Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: ROSS OHIO Posts: 502	I carry the Raptor II and it has been flawless!! and a beautiful gun IMHO. Carry it every day. Is my IDPA gun. But to be honest, and I am no "gun connesuer"(sp) I can barely tell any difference in it than my Springer GI model. I know there is...$500 vs. $1100....but they are bith flawless shooters. But i am no expert. __________________ R1 This is mine. That is yours. Lets keep it that way.

July 9th, 2008, 09:58 AM	#27
CCWINNC Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: NC Posts: 180	47% of you have stated having problems. Why spend $1000 or more on a gun that has a 50% working rate. You would not buy a car with that many known problems. 50% is not reliable enough to carry in my book. __________________ CCWINNC HK P2000 .40SW Para Ord Tac 4 .45acp XD 9 Service XD 9 SC Taurus 651 .357 mag

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July 7th, 2008, 10:48 PM	#21
JerryM Distinguished Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,666	According to the poll 25% of owners had or have problems after break in. Not good enough for me. Another poll might investigate how long and how many trips to the factory it took to get one working at an acceptable level of reliability. The one Kimber that I still have, a compact, went to the factory at least twice, and then I had to send it to a custom smith to get it acceptable. I do not consider that a good record for Kimber, but it is good enough to carry now. I sold the two full size models I had, but also had reliability troubles with both of them. They also finally were corrected until reliable. Regards, Jerry

July 8th, 2008, 02:02 PM	#24
jonesy_26 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: SE MI Posts: 279	I would also add that you might find a higher percentage of issues with the compact models of any lineup, Kimber included. A lot of engineering has gone into trying to make the 1911 platform work with the short barrels. They seem to require more tuning than your standard 5" modernized WW2 clone. Dual recoil spring setups, fancy guide rods, internal/external extraction. All have to be coordinated to allow proper function. Remember that almost all of the function of a 1911 is done with SPRINGS. Safeties, trigger, hammer, firing pin, slide return after recoil, all governed by spring force. Even the extractor is just a spring with a fancy tip. If any one of those is not performing right, or does not react to a change you make (lighter loads etc), can cause some sort of failure. Couple that with the extremely tight tolerances, and there are quite a few possible failure modes. The break in period is designed to allow these parts to begin wearing together, to seat in. If there are issues beyond that period, that would cause for concern in my mind.