SiG239

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Piglet

sdr7871 said:

I have to say that I sympathize with both sides on this issue. I currently have something on order from another maker and have been waiting for a very long time.

For one thing, I can certainly understand your frustration. The situation you and I are experiencing is, as you have observed, getting to be very common among custom leather makers.

The simple fact of the matter is that many of these makers have simply bitten off more than they can chew. Starting months ago, I would guess, they continued taking orders that they knew, or must have at least suspected, would back them up so badly that they would be way behind schedule.

Then, once they started becoming significantly behind schedule, another extremely serious problem manifested itself - people's impatience. Customers started to call and email doggedly, trying to find out "when it's going to be done". From what I hear, the number of these communications from customers is way beyond what I would have first imagined; so much so that the holster makers, were they to answer everybody's messages, wouldn't be making any holsters at all! It would require all their time to explain themselves to us.

Here's a quote from Brommeland's website:

So, he goes on to say, Though it could be argued that such a situation (by no means limited to Brommeland - several others seem to be experiencing something similar) is at least somewhat the fault of the holster maker (if only through their failure to somehow communicate to their customers what may be perfectly legitimate reasons for the delay - communication that I have to believe would eliminate some of the calls and emails, since the customers would finally understand what was going on), it is undeniable that they cannot answer all these messages and still fill any orders. So I understand, though I'm not happy about it at all.

However, in my opinion there definitely is something that these makers can do to relieve the pressure somewhat. Why not do what Matt Del Fatti does, and post on your website the month from which you are building orders? Provided you holster makers fill orders in the order in which they were received (is this the case?), wouldn't this serve to soothe customers whose orders are way behind schedule? Even if they aren't happy that they won't be getting to their order for a while, at least they'll hear something from you, even if it's not a personal message of any sort but just a general advisory! But we have to hear SOMETHING!

Please note that I'm not talking about the guy who order 6 months ago, and was given an estimate (and I realize it's just that, an estimate) of 4-5 months delivery. I'm talking about the kind of people who ordered over a year ago, having been told maybe 3-4 months, and have heard nothing for a long time, and whose messages are not being returned.

Several weeks ago I attempted correspondence with another custom maker whose product I have been waiting for for well over a year, to no avail. A couple emails, about a week apart, followed by a letter, went unanwered. So, instead of angrily barraging him with messages, I just stopped. I am confident that, even though it's bothersome for me to get no response, he got at least one of my messages (the letter if nothing else), and he's aware of my order. This is all I really wanted, because I had become worried that the order had become lost, since I know of several people who ordered after did and yet have already received their holsters from him.

I know that there's really nothing I can do now. Just have to wait.

Bottom line: How things came to such a pass may be discussed to no end: there are probably both lame excuses and honest explanations such as the legitimate material/supply problems we hear about from time to time. But we have to cut the makers some slack and let them work, instead of asking them to spend the time typing or talking.

At the same time, as you have said, as customers we must be able to get some idea of how all we are going to find out anything about the status of long overdue orders. It is only fair. Otherwise, how long do they expect us to wait? What is reasonable? I have to believe that once you've waited 3 or 4 times as long as estimated, even the most harried and overworked craftsman will agree that the customer is owed some kind of update.

So, on behalf of all those who feel as I do and acknowledge the current catch-22 situation, I have this to suggest/ask/beg of those custom makers who find themselves backed up with orders and also overwhelmed with communication from customers:

Please, though I know you can't personally answer every call and email, could you at least find some way to publicly post, on gun forums or your website, some kind of occasional, overall status updates regarding "where you currently are" in your order queue. Could you just say "currently building orders from month/year", or something like that? Just a little something so we can get a rough idea of how long it's going to be.

The thing that frustrates me is not the holster's taking far longer than predicted by the maker when the order was placed; it's feeling as though I've dropped off the radar as far as they are concerned. When months and months have passed without any word, particularly when one hears on forums about others receiving holsters that they ordered well after you did, there is a real concern that maybe your order has been lost, or slipped through the cracks or something. Even a little communication, in any form, would help! If the holster maker posted something that said "making orders from January 2007", and you ordered in October 2006, then that might give you a heads-up that there might be a problem. If the maker posted that he's having trouble with his sharkskin supplier, then if your rig's shark it would at least give you an idea of what could be wrong, and set your mind at rest.

Okay, I'm getting down now!

I hope I didn't get carried away. I mean everything I say in a friendly way - I just want to get some relief and answers for both sides here, the leatherworkers and customers.

P.S.: Saw that I misread the guy from Glocktalk's situation, so I deleted my comments about it. Sorry for that, I should read more carefully.

slimjim

In my experience, the following have delivered in a reasonable fashion. (without stating whom I have ordered from)
1) UBG Holsters
2) Fist
3) Kramer
4) Mika

FlyboyLDB

Add Crossbreed to the list.

dougja

d&dgunleather.com ... man of his word, good communication, fast shipment, quality product, expensive :) It's so true...you get what you pay for.

Herknav

I haven't ordered anything from him in a while, but Ken Null was good to me.

BikerRN

Thank you sir for a well written post that sums up my feelings pretty clearly.

As some of you may be aware, I went through an ordeal with a "big name" holster maker that frequents this site. I was told 3-4 months until completion. I cancelled my order at 9 months. After I cancelled he finished the holster and asked me if I wanted it. My answer was a definate NO!

There are some good holster makers out there that are not only craftsmen, but have a good sense of customer service too. I've dealt with a few of the big names, but the list is very short as to whom I will patronize.

Greg Kramer
Milt Sparks
Ken Null
Matt Del Fatti
Mitch Rosen

All of the above is whom I will give my hard earned money to. There may be others that give good customer service, but these are the one's that I've had dealings with. I will continue to use these makers for their excellent craftsmanship and commitment to customer service.

Biker

__________________
If I knew I was going to get in to a gunfight I most ceratinly wouln't bring a handgun or two, and I don't know any smart person that does.

dgg9

You have a few choices:

1. Sometimes holsters makers have a small ready-to-ship stock available. Never hurts to call. Of course, if this is one of the one-man shops that never return calls, this approach fails.

2. Go to a middle man retailer like:

http://www.lightningarms.com
http://www.holster-connection.com/
http://www.gunnersalley.com

...where you might hit gold, or not, but will be a little more $$ than ordering direct.

3. Go to the places that have good product and also have reasonable and candid delays and good customer service like Milt Sparks, Kramer, and few others. (ETA: also FIST -- I actually use a FIST 20 leather IWB for my G17 and can recommend it. They said "5 weeks" and it was 5 weeks).

4. Or you could just get something like Galco, where it'll be in your mailbox in a week.

dgg9

Yet from these forums, I DON'T get the idea that every customer is calling constantly. Most of the posters here are like me: promised 3 - 4 months, then after 8 or 9 months, we try to reach the guy and don't get any response. After an outrageously long delay, which is their fault, not ours, it's not too much ask for ONE SINGLE STATUS REPORT.

Yeah, I get there is time spent in dealing with irate customers -- but YOU made them irate. This is a problem you created, hence you are obliged to fix. And there are plenty of easy solutions: as has been mentioned, put a little status blurb on the website or even on your voicemail. But evading customers and stonewalling a delay that's 3x what was stated is not acceptable. In no other industry would this be acceptable.

9x18shooter

If you used a credit card through Paypal to make the payment you can call your credit card company and have them pull the funds back. It has worked for me in the past.