QuickDrawMcGraw

Anyone here have any experience with either the Kramer OWB Scabbard or the Kramer MSP paddle? I'm considering them for OWB for my P229 and was wondering if anyone here has some opinions about them. Thanks!

mcp1810

I love my MSP!
Here is the thread I started about it and some of the responses. I hope it helps.
Kudos to Kramer!

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Waiting on the research and verification.......

QuickDrawMcGraw

MCP,

I noticed that the MSP paddles on the Kramer website do not have a thumb break, was your's on option? I heard that the MSP does ride closer to the body compared to most paddles but is comparable or close to how belt holsters ride?

dgg9

I had their canted belt scabbard (completely different design than the vertical scabbard) for a few guns. They're really good at comfortably holding a big, heavy gun; I carried a CZ75 in one for a while.

FlyboyLDB

Ordered one for my step dad for Christmas. Wrapped up now. It looks great. Appears to be a sturdy holster for carrying a heavy gun.

Gideon

I have their OWB scabbard in horse hide for a J Frame. Everything is perfect EXCEPT, they bend the belt slots out when forming the holster instead of letting them lay flat. I'm not sure how to explain it but if you imagine wearing a cowhide holster for years and cinching it super tight how the belt would pull on the belt loops, eventually deforming them so they're more like open oval in shape instead of flat slits? Well, they intentionally form their belt slots that way. As a result, my Scabbard doesn't fit as close to my side as I would like or that I think it would if they left them flat. I called and told them I was unhappy and although they were nice about it, they would NOT except a return or an exchange. They were polite and did offer to look at the holster to see if it was defective and if it was, then they would take it back but I didn't sent it to them because it was obvious this is how they make it.

If they let the belt slots be totally flat like you'd imagine they would be, then it would probably make it necessary to break in the holster at first but I believe it would make the weapon be actually tight to the side that way.

I was quite disappointed on a $118.00 holster that they weren't more willing to ensure my satisfaction. I suspect that very few others have the same complaint but I would think they'd hear it alot. If you look real close on their web site you can almost see what I mean but not quite.

I wouldn't buy from them again unless I could be more sure of my satisfaction before I bought. Now if I'd made a big stink I might have gotten them to take it back but I won't do that and, again, the lady I dealt with was polite but very firm in her position. So just consider it before you buy.

It makes me sick that I have such a nice holster that is absolutely perfect in every way except this. I'm going to sell it when I get a chance.
God Bless
Gideon

pogo2

I have several Kramer horsehide belt scabbards for various guns, and they are my favorite OWB holsters. They are very stiff and sturdy to hold the gun firmly in place, and they hold up very well over time.

The photo below shows my Sig P229 in a Kramer belt scabbard that was made for a H&K USP 40c. I don't really carry the Sig and prefer the USP for carry, but as an experiment I tried the Sig in the holster. It was a perfect fit, as the guns have the same general dimensions except for the square trigger guard on the USP (as you can see in the holster molding).

As Gideon pointed out, Kramer does "mold in" the shape of a belt in the belt loops of their belt scabbard holsters. All 4 of mine are that way. But I don't believe that it compromises the closeness of the fit, and feel that Kramer does this for a good reason. If they didn't do this, I think the stiff horsehide would require excessive bending of the belt in order to fit through the loops, and the fit would be worse.



Here is my Kimber Pro CDP in a Kramer belt scabbard, showing more clearly what Gideon is talking about with the "oval" belt loops. But this holster fits very well, and is close to my body.

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Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the Peoples' Liberty's Teeth." - George Washington

OPFOR

Bought three MSPs for S&W Model 19s. Very happy with them so far (6 months of use). Good quality, good turn-around, good concealment. I'm not a fan of thumb breaks in general, so the lack of one was certainly not a problem for me. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes, and you'll never really know until you wear it for a while, but this is a good bet for many folks.

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"It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way."

SailorWatson

I have a Don Hume and the belt loops are formed as well. I think it makes the fit better without de-forming my belt.

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PM Doric 342
www.grandrogueencampment.com

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dgg9

Now that you mention it, the Kramer scabbard I had for my G17 rubbed really loudly as I walked. I thought it was just me and sold it, but maybe that's related to this?