Isn't this style of holster illegal?

paramedic70002 · May 25th, 2008, 02:07 AM

https://www.pagerpal.com/wallet.asp

I think it is on the feds big bad no no list, as it is able to be fired while holstered.

Am I wrong?

Kerbouchard · May 25th, 2008, 02:09 AM

Why would you want a holster that doesn't protect the trigger guard? Even if it's not on the feds 'no no list', it's on my personal 'no no list'.

Also, even though this company claims to be in my neck of the woods, I would not buy anything from their website. It all looks pretty cookie cutter, it's overpriced, and I'm not a big fan of 'one size fits all' holsters.

Looks like a company to stay away from to me.

AZ Husker · May 25th, 2008, 03:42 AM

Nothing illegal about it in friendly Arizona. I used to have one that held a derringer and looked just like a billfold in your back pocket.

dnowell · May 25th, 2008, 03:56 AM

I believe that they argue that it's legal because the slide is clearly visible. The previous banned design truly looked like a wallet; this not as much. Note that the ban by the BATF at a federal level - not state level regulations.

They decided that it's an "Any Other Weapon" which means you have to register and pay a fee. Because of that holster makers stopped making it - presumably too much paperwork. I've seen AOW registered ones on Gunbroker but it hardly seems worth it.

the_fallguy · May 25th, 2008, 04:20 AM

dnowell pretty much has it. The company that manufactures that model has a letter from the BATFE stating that because the slide is easily identifiable, it is not considered a "destructive device". Any company making a similar holster without submitting a sample is gambling with their future.

Sticks · May 25th, 2008, 08:19 AM

Ditto on the "No trigger cover"

Even if I did pocket carry, I sure would not use that one.

I was unaware that there was a FED no no list on holsters.

ccw9mm · May 25th, 2008, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dnowell

They decided that it's an "Any Other Weapon" ...

It's a standard pistol when it's in holster X, but when in holster Y (despite not changing at all) it becomes classified as a completely different type of gun? I don't buy it.

MattLarson · May 25th, 2008, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccw9mm

It's a standard pistol when it's in holster X, but when in holster Y (despite not changing at all) it becomes classified as a completely different type of gun? I don't buy it.

Odd as it may seem, this is entirely accurate.

27 CFR 479.11 defines handguns as having a grip extending below the gun at an angle to the bore. Placing it in a holster that conceals this identifiable grip and that the gun can be fired while holstered creates an AOW.

See Jon Gutmacher, Florida Firearms, pp 115-117.

Matt

T Bone · May 25th, 2008, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccw9mm

It's a standard pistol when it's in holster X, but when in holster Y (despite not changing at all) it becomes classified as a completely different type of gun? I don't buy it.

Well, it's the ATF, so go figure. Their logic runs something like this. They figure since (in the other case, not this one) it generally has the appearance of a wallet (even when "drawn") and can fire in that configuration (from appearances, a wallet that shoots), it is classified as an "any other weapon" (a category of firearms reserved for various oddities from briefcases that shoot, guns that look like pens or other objects, or even more mundane things such as factory made super short shotguns).

Research "any other weapon" for sale, you'll come up with some interesting items.

ETA: I like Matt's legal definition above better than my own explanation (more accurate). It wasn't there when I started my response.

ccw9mm · May 25th, 2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattLarson

27 CFR 479.11 defines handguns as having a grip extending below the gun at an angle to the bore. Placing it in a holster that conceals this identifiable grip and that the gun can be fired while holstered creates an AOW.

So, simply because one cannot see the grip, it's deemed to have altered states?

Reality is, holster-less carry means a pocket-carried gun can be fired while pocketed ... yet that's patently not illegal. Unsafe perhaps. Yet, put a bit of leather around it which only alters its ability to "flop" in the pocket, then it becomes an AOW?

Brings new meaning to the possibilities, doesn't it? We joke about "evil black" rifles, but such lunacy might not be too far from occurring.

Sounds like a vitamin D deficiency, to me.

May 25th, 2008, 02:09 AM	#2
Kerbouchard VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 2,895	Why would you want a holster that doesn't protect the trigger guard? Even if it's not on the feds 'no no list', it's on my personal 'no no list'. Also, even though this company claims to be in my neck of the woods, I would not buy anything from their website. It all looks pretty cookie cutter, it's overpriced, and I'm not a big fan of 'one size fits all' holsters. Looks like a company to stay away from to me. __________________ There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil. http://miscmusings.townhall.com/ Who is John Galt?

May 25th, 2008, 03:42 AM	#3
AZ Husker VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Phoenix Posts: 3,575	Nothing illegal about it in friendly Arizona. I used to have one that held a derringer and looked just like a billfold in your back pocket. __________________ Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

May 25th, 2008, 04:20 AM	#5
the_fallguy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Southern Missouri Posts: 544	dnowell pretty much has it. The company that manufactures that model has a letter from the BATFE stating that because the slide is easily identifiable, it is not considered a "destructive device". Any company making a similar holster without submitting a sample is gambling with their future. __________________ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Where self preservation is concerned, if you're not cheating, your not trying...

May 25th, 2008, 08:19 AM	#6
Sticks Distinguished Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,543	Ditto on the "No trigger cover" Even if I did pocket carry, I sure would not use that one. I was unaware that there was a FED no no list on holsters. __________________ Sticks Curiosity was framed, poor judgment killed the cat A Government is comprised of a body of people notably ungoverned Three can keep a secret if two are dead

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May 25th, 2008, 03:56 AM	#4
dnowell Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: USA Posts: 462	I believe that they argue that it's legal because the slide is clearly visible. The previous banned design truly looked like a wallet; this not as much. Note that the ban by the BATF at a federal level - not state level regulations. They decided that it's an "Any Other Weapon" which means you have to register and pay a fee. Because of that holster makers stopped making it - presumably too much paperwork. I've seen AOW registered ones on Gunbroker but it hardly seems worth it.