The benefits of becoming "one" with your sidearm

AzQkr · January 25th, 2007, 10:50 PM

I've purchased a new "potential" carry gun in the last few weeks. It's an XD45 service model [ 4 inch barrel and about the size of my glock 17 ]. I've put roughly 200 rds downrange with it the first time out, and another 300+ rds through it in the last week.

I shoot the damned thing well enough, and I've found myself carrying it when not working the gun shop once or twice, but leaving it home for my most favored G17 when going into the shop.

It dawned on me the other night that I have subconsciously not felt "one" enough with the XD45 to know I can shoot it as instinctively or as well as the G17, even though I can shoot it well enough for most to not notice any skills lacking if they watched me firing it.

That's been nagging me for the last few nights, really making me think about this, and I've come to some conclusions here. Keep in mind these are my own thoughts and do not reflect on anyone elses criteria or circumstances.

I've shot the G17 through tens of thousands of rds in the last years. In that time it has become "one" with my hand when I hold it, my hand knows how to take it from it's resting place automatically without any thought. It's auto-pilot to scoop it out and shoot the G17 now without ever worrying where the bullets will hit. They hit exactly where I'm looking and want them to go instinctively.

Not so with the new XD45. Sure, I can shoot the thing well, but not as much on auto-pilot as the gun I'm more familiar with, thats been in my hand longer than any other gun other than the 1911's I carried for almost 3 decades.

It seems I can pick up any 1911 and shoot it on auto-pilot through not just carrying it for so long and becoming familiar with it in that regard, but firing tens and tens of thousands of rds through that platform till the gun had become and is "one" with me without any conscious thought to it's operation. As well, all I have to do is look to where I want the bullets to go, and they seem to just go there with the 1911's.

So it has become the same where the feeling of being "one' with my G17's in the last few years is concerned. Though I haven't carried them anywhere near as long as I have the 1911 type pistols time wise, the G17's have sent tens of thousands of rds downrange over the years and specifically the last two have been very heavy on ammo expenditures through them in training and constantly carried for the most part over the same time frame.

So, this is where I'm at at the moment with my carrying situation. I refuse to leave the G17 home and carry the new XD45 daily because it has not been in my hand long enough and put enough rds downrange to be "one" and shot subconsciously from the drawstroke to rds where I'm looking.

I wonder how the members here feel about their own carry gun/s. Have you noticed you shoot one or another gun more proficiently with less conscious effort as I do with the 1911's and G17's?

Can you shoot your chosen weapon platform without that conscious thought process, or do you have to "think" about the draw, the trigger control, the grip, and where that gun needs to be either one handed or two to put multiples of rds on potential threats?

Are you willing to carry something you shoot less and maybe not as fast, or as well, or without really thinking about any of the above to put rds where you want them in lieu of another platform that you can say meets the above?

Do you own any gun that meets my own criteria of subconscious effort for carry at this point? If so, what gun/s is/are they and how many rds do you think it took for you to get to that feeling of "one" as I have with the 1911's or Glock 17?

When I wasn't one with the G17 quite yet, I still carried the 1911's until I knew I could shoot it as well and without that conscious thought process necessary when I'm not "one" with a handgun through familiarization of having it always with me and getting enough rds downrange to KNOW exactly what the gun and I are capable of together without having to think about what I'm doing.

I'd like to hear from members on this idea of being truly "one" with the gun they carry and if you feel it necessary to be as proficient as you can be, therby cutting the odds further in your own favor should you ever have to pull it and use it under stress of a potential life and death encounter.

Brownie

ccw9mm · January 25th, 2007, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzQkr

I've shot the G17 through tens of thousands of rds in the last years. It's auto-pilot ... where the bullets will hit. They hit exactly where I'm looking and want them to go instinctively.

I had a Browning BDM 9mm semi-auto like that. I'd shot well over 35K rounds with it, and it was simply a natural extension of my hand. Literally point-and-shoot. Nearly a tack driver. Sold the dang thing to get a truly concealable revolver for pocket carry, given a change of clothing/carry requirements at the time. Dumbest thing I ever did, selling that BDM, as it was shot perfectly, was tuned and well-worn, and I knew every ounce and angle of that gun. I've now got a second one, but it's not broken in or as balanced in the hand.

Quote:

Have you noticed you shoot one or another gun more proficiently with less conscious effort?

Sure. My original BDM was like that. My relatively new CZ P01 9mm is like that as well. At 3300 rounds, it's nearly as easy to aim and shoot as instinctively as the BDM ever was. Not quite, but nearly so.

Quote:

... or do you have to "think" about the draw, the trigger control, the grip, and where that gun needs to be ... to put multiples of rds on potential threats?

The past 1000 rounds with the P01 has started feeling instinctive. Another 4-5K rounds, and I'll be "one" with the P01, I think. It's happening, definitely.

Quote:

Are you willing to carry something you shoot less and maybe not as fast, or as well, or without really thinking about any of the above?

Absolutely not. The gun needs to fit the hand like a glove, feel like an extension of the hand, point naturally, be well-balanced, have easily-manipulated controls, and be accurate and reliable enough to depend on in a deadly situation. Anything else, IMO, is a waste of my time and potentially deadly. For the carry weapon, it's that important to me. In 16yrs of shooting and looking for the single exceptional carry weapon, I've found two that were perfect: the Browning BDM 9mm, and now the CZ P01 9mm. Nothing else compares, given what fits/works for my hand, skills and criteria.

Quote:

Do you own any gun that meets my own criteria of subconscious effort for carry at this point?

The two guns above. The BDM has been for many years, now. The CZ is just entering "the zone" for subconscious comfort and point-and-shoot feel. Have yet to find anything else like it amongst the entire range of pistols that are made. These two are head and shoulders above the rest, for what fits my hand, eye, skill. Can't explain it any better than that.

Quote:

When I wasn't one with the G17 quite yet, I still carried the 1911's until I knew I could shoot it as well and without that conscious thought process ...

Ditto. With the carry piece I'm relying on for when SHTF, that's the only criterion that matters. It had better get the job done, naturally, simply and quickly, else I could be toast. Don't like toast.

Quote:

I'd like to hear from members on this idea of being truly "one" with the gun ...

OMmmmmmmm

AzQkr · January 25th, 2007, 11:27 PM

Several actually.

I wonder how the members here feel about their own carry gun/s. Have you noticed you shoot one or another gun more proficiently with less conscious effort as I do with the 1911's and G17's?

Can you shoot your chosen weapon platform without that conscious thought process, or do you have to "think" about the draw, the trigger control, the grip, and where that gun needs to be either one handed or two to put multiples of rds on potential threats?

Are you willing to carry something you shoot less and maybe not as fast, or as well, or without really thinking about any of the above to put rds where you want them in lieu of another platform that you can say meets the above?

Do you own any gun that meets my own criteria of subconscious effort for carry at this point? If so, what gun/s is/are they and how many rds do you think it took for you to get to that feeling of "one" as I have with the 1911's or Glock 17?

Brownie

AzQkr · January 25th, 2007, 11:28 PM

ccw9mm;

Thanks for the reasoned responses and your own thoughts on the subject.

Brownie

P95Carry · January 25th, 2007, 11:47 PM

I'll say this ......... and I agree with the principle Brownie....

I have now for two years, solidly and unwaveringly carried my 226 ST. Only in the most extreme circumstances will I change that or downsize - it has to be down to some severe limitations on my carry options.

I know some folks have to adapt and this may mean changing the carry option but my feeling is - know the gun's manual of arms like fully automatic - no need to think how it works. Then also have that fit in the hand seeming like it is an extension.

This means that should (hopefully not) the crisis occur we all dread - the feel, use, pointability etc of the gun will be as close to instinct as is possible - all thought going into the scenario and surrounding details.

I will not be too bothered if I sub the 226 for a 228 or even 220 - same manual of arms at least but - even so - the 226 ''feel'' is still unique and I'll stick with it hopefully now a long while yet.

AzQkr · January 26th, 2007, 12:52 AM

Chris,
I carried a 228 on duty for 5 years with one dept. It was a superb firearm, one of my favorites and I definately became one with it after some 35K through it in that time. It's ergos are superb.

Brownie

sm · January 26th, 2007, 01:48 AM

Great Thread.

The key is finding what fits you and affords quick accurate hits.

Once that gun /platform is found - stick with it.
I believe in "becoming one with the gun" and then having redundancies of said gun. Mentors suggested one having Four of same gun.

One for CCW, one for backup, one in the event one needs service, or if taken into Evidence because of lawful use of stopping an immediate threat - and one off site elsewhere.

Chris is "redundant" with his Sigs. Another example-

One can have 4 K frame dedicated .38spls that "they are one with".
Model 10 snubby, Model 64 snubby, Model 64 3" RB HB, Model 64 4", Model 10 4", Model 10 6"...etc.

Model 10 is blue and Model 64 is the same gun in stanless. One may choose the longer barrel lengths for Nightstand/ House/ Business and shorter snub/ 3" for carry.

Confidence is a big part of feeling as one with equipment. If one does have a bad experience, questions themselves with equipment choices- no matter the quality of equipment - if one loses Confidence is hard to to trust said equipment.
Often best to go through the process of finding something one does have confidence in, and becoming one with it.

Steve

AzQkr · February 10th, 2007, 02:38 AM

Confidence is a big part of feeling as one with equipment. If one does have a bad experience, questions themselves with equipment choices- no matter the quality of equipment - if one loses Confidence is hard to to trust said equipment.

Often best to go through the process of finding something one does have confidence in, and becoming one with it.

Great thought process Steve.

Brownie

bones · February 10th, 2007, 07:12 AM

One with your gun; just like a Jedi with his light saber.

Tangle · February 10th, 2007, 09:09 AM

AzQkr,

I know this is probably gonna open up a can of worms, but....

I believe what you described is one of the banes of point shooting. It simply does not lend itself well to changing guns without a time of re-learning. In addition to your experience I want to add two more.

I went to a point shooting school. I spent 6 days there. I saw a National IDPA champion try to transition from 'his' gun to a Glock. He shot high time after time. After about a day, he retired the Glock and went back to 'his' gun and was right on.

The second is a personal experience. I had gone to Gunsite and shot some 1200 rounds in five days with a 1911 using an almost instantaneous flash sight picture. In one simulator, we had to transition to another gun as if ours had become disfunctional and could not be repaired in the field. I had a gun with a different feel, shape, DA/SA trigger and it didn't give me a moments problem.

But, then when I got home, after five days of intense high performance training with a 1911, I strapped on my Glock, went to my range and the first draw out of the holster, using an instantaneous flash sight picture, I hit the X in my B-27 and proceeded to repeat the feat, although the next shots weren't that impressive, they were all faster than I could draw and fire with my 1911, and they were all in the X-ring. I'm not saying the X-ring is the goal in SD, normally you'd want a little bit more spread than that, but I wanted to see what I could do with a gun with a totally different feel and trigger mechanism.

January 25th, 2007, 10:50 PM	#1
AzQkr Distinguished Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: In the Superstitions Posts: 1,771	The benefits of becoming "one" with your sidearm I've purchased a new "potential" carry gun in the last few weeks. It's an XD45 service model [ 4 inch barrel and about the size of my glock 17 ]. I've put roughly 200 rds downrange with it the first time out, and another 300+ rds through it in the last week. I shoot the damned thing well enough, and I've found myself carrying it when not working the gun shop once or twice, but leaving it home for my most favored G17 when going into the shop. It dawned on me the other night that I have subconsciously not felt "one" enough with the XD45 to know I can shoot it as instinctively or as well as the G17, even though I can shoot it well enough for most to not notice any skills lacking if they watched me firing it. That's been nagging me for the last few nights, really making me think about this, and I've come to some conclusions here. Keep in mind these are my own thoughts and do not reflect on anyone elses criteria or circumstances. I've shot the G17 through tens of thousands of rds in the last years. In that time it has become "one" with my hand when I hold it, my hand knows how to take it from it's resting place automatically without any thought. It's auto-pilot to scoop it out and shoot the G17 now without ever worrying where the bullets will hit. They hit exactly where I'm looking and want them to go instinctively. Not so with the new XD45. Sure, I can shoot the thing well, but not as much on auto-pilot as the gun I'm more familiar with, thats been in my hand longer than any other gun other than the 1911's I carried for almost 3 decades. It seems I can pick up any 1911 and shoot it on auto-pilot through not just carrying it for so long and becoming familiar with it in that regard, but firing tens and tens of thousands of rds through that platform till the gun had become and is "one" with me without any conscious thought to it's operation. As well, all I have to do is look to where I want the bullets to go, and they seem to just go there with the 1911's. So it has become the same where the feeling of being "one' with my G17's in the last few years is concerned. Though I haven't carried them anywhere near as long as I have the 1911 type pistols time wise, the G17's have sent tens of thousands of rds downrange over the years and specifically the last two have been very heavy on ammo expenditures through them in training and constantly carried for the most part over the same time frame. So, this is where I'm at at the moment with my carrying situation. I refuse to leave the G17 home and carry the new XD45 daily because it has not been in my hand long enough and put enough rds downrange to be "one" and shot subconsciously from the drawstroke to rds where I'm looking. I wonder how the members here feel about their own carry gun/s. Have you noticed you shoot one or another gun more proficiently with less conscious effort as I do with the 1911's and G17's? Can you shoot your chosen weapon platform without that conscious thought process, or do you have to "think" about the draw, the trigger control, the grip, and where that gun needs to be either one handed or two to put multiples of rds on potential threats? Are you willing to carry something you shoot less and maybe not as fast, or as well, or without really thinking about any of the above to put rds where you want them in lieu of another platform that you can say meets the above? Do you own any gun that meets my own criteria of subconscious effort for carry at this point? If so, what gun/s is/are they and how many rds do you think it took for you to get to that feeling of "one" as I have with the 1911's or Glock 17? When I wasn't one with the G17 quite yet, I still carried the 1911's until I knew I could shoot it as well and without that conscious thought process necessary when I'm not "one" with a handgun through familiarization of having it always with me and getting enough rds downrange to KNOW exactly what the gun and I are capable of together without having to think about what I'm doing. I'd like to hear from members on this idea of being truly "one" with the gun they carry and if you feel it necessary to be as proficient as you can be, therby cutting the odds further in your own favor should you ever have to pull it and use it under stress of a potential life and death encounter. Brownie __________________ The mind is the limiting factor http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/index.php

January 25th, 2007, 11:27 PM	#3
AzQkr Distinguished Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: In the Superstitions Posts: 1,771	Several actually. I wonder how the members here feel about their own carry gun/s. Have you noticed you shoot one or another gun more proficiently with less conscious effort as I do with the 1911's and G17's? Can you shoot your chosen weapon platform without that conscious thought process, or do you have to "think" about the draw, the trigger control, the grip, and where that gun needs to be either one handed or two to put multiples of rds on potential threats? Are you willing to carry something you shoot less and maybe not as fast, or as well, or without really thinking about any of the above to put rds where you want them in lieu of another platform that you can say meets the above? Do you own any gun that meets my own criteria of subconscious effort for carry at this point? If so, what gun/s is/are they and how many rds do you think it took for you to get to that feeling of "one" as I have with the 1911's or Glock 17? Brownie __________________ The mind is the limiting factor http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/index.php Last edited by QKShooter; February 11th, 2007 at 03:03 PM..

January 25th, 2007, 11:28 PM	#4
AzQkr Distinguished Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: In the Superstitions Posts: 1,771	ccw9mm; Thanks for the reasoned responses and your own thoughts on the subject. Brownie __________________ The mind is the limiting factor http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/index.php

January 25th, 2007, 11:47 PM	#5
P95Carry Assistant Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South West PA Posts: 25,468	I'll say this ......... and I agree with the principle Brownie.... I have now for two years, solidly and unwaveringly carried my 226 ST. Only in the most extreme circumstances will I change that or downsize - it has to be down to some severe limitations on my carry options. I know some folks have to adapt and this may mean changing the carry option but my feeling is - know the gun's manual of arms like fully automatic - no need to think how it works. Then also have that fit in the hand seeming like it is an extension. This means that should (hopefully not) the crisis occur we all dread - the feel, use, pointability etc of the gun will be as close to instinct as is possible - all thought going into the scenario and surrounding details. I will not be too bothered if I sub the 226 for a 228 or even 220 - same manual of arms at least but - even so - the 226 ''feel'' is still unique and I'll stick with it hopefully now a long while yet. __________________ Chris - P95 NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. "To own a gun and assume that you are armed is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!." If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

January 26th, 2007, 12:52 AM	#6
AzQkr Distinguished Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: In the Superstitions Posts: 1,771	Chris, I carried a 228 on duty for 5 years with one dept. It was a superb firearm, one of my favorites and I definately became one with it after some 35K through it in that time. It's ergos are superb. Brownie __________________ The mind is the limiting factor http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/index.php Last edited by QKShooter; February 10th, 2007 at 01:11 PM.. Reason: Edit out misunderstanding

January 26th, 2007, 01:48 AM	#7
sm Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 127	Great Thread. The key is finding what fits you and affords quick accurate hits. Once that gun /platform is found - stick with it. I believe in "becoming one with the gun" and then having redundancies of said gun. Mentors suggested one having Four of same gun. One for CCW, one for backup, one in the event one needs service, or if taken into Evidence because of lawful use of stopping an immediate threat - and one off site elsewhere. Chris is "redundant" with his Sigs. Another example- One can have 4 K frame dedicated .38spls that "they are one with". Model 10 snubby, Model 64 snubby, Model 64 3" RB HB, Model 64 4", Model 10 4", Model 10 6"...etc. Model 10 is blue and Model 64 is the same gun in stanless. One may choose the longer barrel lengths for Nightstand/ House/ Business and shorter snub/ 3" for carry. Confidence is a big part of feeling as one with equipment. If one does have a bad experience, questions themselves with equipment choices- no matter the quality of equipment - if one loses Confidence is hard to to trust said equipment. Often best to go through the process of finding something one does have confidence in, and becoming one with it. Steve __________________ Use Enough Gun

February 10th, 2007, 02:38 AM	#8
AzQkr Distinguished Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: In the Superstitions Posts: 1,771	Confidence is a big part of feeling as one with equipment. If one does have a bad experience, questions themselves with equipment choices- no matter the quality of equipment - if one loses Confidence is hard to to trust said equipment. Often best to go through the process of finding something one does have confidence in, and becoming one with it. Great thought process Steve. Brownie __________________ The mind is the limiting factor http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/index.php

February 10th, 2007, 07:12 AM	#9
bones Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 381	One with your gun; just like a Jedi with his light saber. __________________ "There is no such thing as too much ammo. Unless you're swimming!"

February 10th, 2007, 09:09 AM	#10
Tangle Senior Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chattanooga Posts: 6,611	AzQkr, I know this is probably gonna open up a can of worms, but.... I believe what you described is one of the banes of point shooting. It simply does not lend itself well to changing guns without a time of re-learning. In addition to your experience I want to add two more. I went to a point shooting school. I spent 6 days there. I saw a National IDPA champion try to transition from 'his' gun to a Glock. He shot high time after time. After about a day, he retired the Glock and went back to 'his' gun and was right on. The second is a personal experience. I had gone to Gunsite and shot some 1200 rounds in five days with a 1911 using an almost instantaneous flash sight picture. In one simulator, we had to transition to another gun as if ours had become disfunctional and could not be repaired in the field. I had a gun with a different feel, shape, DA/SA trigger and it didn't give me a moments problem. But, then when I got home, after five days of intense high performance training with a 1911, I strapped on my Glock, went to my range and the first draw out of the holster, using an instantaneous flash sight picture, I hit the X in my B-27 and proceeded to repeat the feat, although the next shots weren't that impressive, they were all faster than I could draw and fire with my 1911, and they were all in the X-ring. I'm not saying the X-ring is the goal in SD, normally you'd want a little bit more spread than that, but I wanted to see what I could do with a gun with a totally different feel and trigger mechanism.

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