oregonshooter

Yes it does. :) 3hrs and you were dissappointed? I would think you could cover a lot in detail in that time. Tell me it's not an advertisement for his classes?

Lots of FOF?

AZG23

You have to realize...I shot for along time with guys who knew the good stuff.....so alot of what was in the DVD wasnt particularly new for me personally...the FOF was about the only new stuff I hadnt seen....but get into Gabes class and alot of what was shown in the DVD is explained and reinforced and you get alot out of the DVD at that point. It is well worth the money..Im saying it made more sense once Gabe started teaching.

Oregonshooter...yes...FOF is good stuff...the dvd allows you to reflect back on the class force training. It also helps you to CONTINUE your FOF training with a buddy.

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Brad B.

oregonshooter

Thanks Brad! Looking forward to it.

BigJon

DDGator - Regarding the photo you posted on page one of the thread, it sorta makes my rear end clench. Up front, I'm not an operator, but have had a bit of training from good instructors (In fact. I hope to attend a Suarez course when time and money allow). But I am wondering (seriously - not trying to be a jerk), doesn't the technique shown in the photo involve striking to push your attacker away, and then withdrawing your hand and body to gain a shade of distance before firing? It just seems logical to me that if you are that close to the bad guy, he can knock you back, and therefore cause you to elevate your muzzle right when you fire, which could put the round right through your hand!

Could be wrong - I've seen the technique Kelly McCann uses (don't know if it's his or not, just that I've seen tapes where he uses it) where he's right up again the bad guy with his off-side shoulder and in effect fires under his own sternum. That would seem to be a different situation though - in that instance, you're locked up with the bad guy and have no other option. In your photo, though, I'd think that the ability to get him off of you with the strike would allow you the split second it would take you to withdraw your hand before firing.

Again, just askin'.

Best,
Jon

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DDGator

Jon,

No offense taken. I am certain that I was doing the drill as Gabe asked us to do it. Believe me that I did not jump to firing a gun with my hand forward of the muzzle. Certainly there are things that Gabe teaches that you will not learn or practice anywhere else.

As I recall, the purpose of the strike or other "combatives" is to gain enough time to draw -- i.e., to prevent the attacker who is bearing down on you from interfering with your draw stroke.

Gabe teaches you to aim down so as to minimize any risk of shooting yourself -- I think it is relatively minor. Anything that shifts my body back enough to change the firing line of my retention position is probably going to force me to throw my free hand back as a reflex anyway. I am sure that shooting my weak hand is a possibility, but I assume I am in that particular pickle because I have someone trying to kill me up close and personal.

I am sure Gabe would be the first to tell you that situations are fluid and if you have time to get your off hand out of the way completely, do it. But -- that is not how we ran the drill.

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DDGator (Duane)
www.RealWorldCarryGear.com

BigJon

Makes sense, DD. It comes down to cost/benefit, and after thinking about it further, I can narrow the focus down to just the hand contact - "Does letting go of the bad guy's face present its OWN danger that overrides the safety issue of having your hand out there?"

For instance, the technique performed as you showed it in your photo might BE THE ONLY prudent course if, for instance, the bad guy is right handed and has a club over his head. See what I mean? You withdraw your hand, your arms is no longer there to sheild you, and the bad guy gets you with the club before your hand gets back.

Fluid. Yes.

Best,
Jon

__________________
"You may not know it, but there's things that gnaw at a man worse than dyin'."

Charles Travis Postlewaite, 1882

DDGator

It is a great picture for the reasons you suggest... :)

My first thought was -- "You want me to do what?"

My second thought was to turn to my shooting partner and say -- "You gotta get a picture of this!" ;)

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DDGator (Duane)
www.RealWorldCarryGear.com

AZG23

as DD stated...you are indexed to fire on said into his hip/groin region..at that point you can move and slightly extend from the compressed position.

We train it often and it is literally a "blast" as the percussion can be intimidating at forst...its no big deal now as we practiced it with Airsoft quite a bit to gain comfort...:)

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Brad B.

oregonshooter

Got the DVD today.

It is an excellent presentation and basically a class on DVD. It covers enough material to fit into 3 classes on the range. I was hoping for more "fighting to your gun" information though.

Nothing against the DVD, but the only thing new I learned was "adding skateboard tape to the top of the slide", works great, and an admonition to become ambidextrous as much as possible.

I handed the first one to a friend I'm teaching and told him "if I was to teach you everything I know, this DVD would cover 99% of it." So I'm not sorry I bought it, and will use it for that purpose a lot, but did wish it was more FOF focused.

I also bought the FOF book, and am really enjoying it.

Worth the $75.00? You bet. That info would cost you $300.00 to take in class and you can review it until you have it down pat. Gabe makes a very professional presentation.

grnzbra

No, it's not an advertisement for the class. The force on force seems to all take place on the second disk. Much of the first disk is taken up with basics. However, it is one of the best videos I've seen. When he demonstrates something, you can see exactly what is going on. For someone starting from scratch, it's fantastic. For someone who has been shooting for a while, the first disk is kinda boring. However, I would recommend it anyway because you might, as I did, have a few "a-hah! So that's how it's done" lessons.

As far as getting your hand in front of the gun, if the attacker is on top of you, you will have to do something to keep him off you until you can get your gun out. Backing away isn't good because he can go forward faster than you can go backward. Going off at an angle forward works if you have a little room, but doing a Teuller Drill at a range of 3 yards doesn't leave much margin for doing that. If you launch yourself directly at him and throw up a block (assuming a downward knife stab) you will not have too much of a risk of hitting your hand because you will not have the ability to bring the gun up high enough to hit the other hand.

One of the things that I found out in the Interactive course was that all the neat stuff (well, perhaps not all of it) that works in IPSC/IDPA/square range falls apart when the go signal is the target suddenly attacking you. It puts the joke about bringing a knife to a gunfight into a whole new perspective.

If you can't take the class, get the DVD and his book on Interactive Gunfighting and a training partner. You'll be in good shape.

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