Pressure points for self defense - Page 2

dnowell · April 3rd, 2009, 01:10 AM

I see pressure points and other hand to hand stuff like that as a good way to deal with a non-lethal violent encounter - say a guy grabbing you in a bar. Not appropriate to draw down, but you have to deal with it.

semperfi.45 · April 3rd, 2009, 09:12 AM

I lean towards joint manipulation and pain compliance . On the job, it has worked remarkably well and kept my UOF liability and reporting way down.

64zebra · April 4th, 2009, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semperfi.45

I lean towards joint manipulation and pain compliance . On the job, it has worked remarkably well

yep, pressure points mainly for compliance

pressure points different than proper strike zones.....I love a good brachial stun

psychophipps · April 5th, 2009, 05:44 PM

I have the rare joy of being one of those people where pressure points work exactly as advertised. All of them.

My friend, however, is one of those people you will never, ever get anything more than a mildly inconvenienced "Ow" out of.

Kyusho is one of those skills where practice really makes perfect. My Kempo sensei with more than 30 years of experience can spend an entire 2-hour session whacking you in pressure point after pressure point at combat speeds while I flail around and manage to get one per 25 repetitions or so at such speeds. This points to the need for your core unarmed techniques to be based upon leverage, balance disruption, and effective energy transfer into your target rather than going for the super-fly, ninhitsu Point o' Screaming Death stuff until you've worked at it for...30 years or so.

If you can get it right, it's gravy. If not, there is always hitting them in the face again.

Jmac00 · April 5th, 2009, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychophipps

I have the rare joy of being one of those people where pressure points work exactly as advertised. All of them.

My friend, however, is one of those people you will never, ever get anything more than a mildly inconvenienced "Ow" out of.

Kyusho is one of those skills where practice really makes perfect. My Kempo sensei with more than 30 years of experience can spend an entire 2-hour session whacking you in pressure point after pressure point at combat speeds while I flail around and manage to get one per 25 repetitions or so at such speeds. This points to the need for your core unarmed techniques to be based upon leverage, balance disruption, and effective energy transfer into your target rather than going for the super-fly, ninhitsu Point o' Screaming Death stuff until you've worked at it for...30 years or so.

If you can get it right, it's gravy. If not, there is always hitting them in the face again.

ya, but if you use your car, you can get ALL the pressure points, all at once

Tros · April 5th, 2009, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychophipps

This points to the need for your core unarmed techniques to be based upon leverage, balance disruption, and effective energy transfer into your target rather than going for the super-fly, ninhitsu Point o' Screaming Death stuff until you've worked at it for...30 years or so.

If you can get it right, it's gravy. If not, there is always hitting them in the face again.

So right.

mercop · April 6th, 2009, 03:00 PM

Pain compliance is a form of a psychological stop. The person has to make a mental decision to stop or comply. IMHO it has no place for citizens in reference self defense. It takes experience to know when it is working, otherwise it leads to task fixation which encourage people to remain stationary instead of moving on and through their target.

What use would a citizen have to restrain someone during an attack? Isn't the idea to separate from the attacker when safe to do so? How would a citizen know there pressure point was being effective, the bad guy taps or says Uncle?- George

Tros · April 6th, 2009, 04:06 PM

Logically, a citizen's best tactic is to avoid the situation all together; realistically that doesn't always happen. The gray scale between fight or flee is filled with multiple techniques that an individual should educate themselves on to find which tactics work best for their individual needs.

With that said, mercop, I don't think anybody here is suggesting restraint techniques as a sole form of self defense. It has it's place, but restraint training would have minimal effect on the overall self defense aspect of things. Minimal, but could possibly be what separates a successful defensive situation from an unsuccessful situation.

I guess, in short, I agree with you completely; I just also think a person needs to learn as much as possible so that in the rare instance, every little bit of knowledge will put them in an advantageous position.

psychophipps · April 6th, 2009, 07:50 PM

The best example of an unarmed civilian "Use of Force Continuum", for lack of a better term, I have seen yet came from my Small Circle Jujitsu sensei:

Defend
Counter
Control
Destroy

It follows an easily describable chain of reactions where you attempt situational avoidance, counter their force with equal force while still attempting to disengage, attempt to subdue and/or control them by the minimum force necessary, and having everything else fail, teach them that their joints do, indeed, bend in the opposite direction of intended use if you really want them to.

In today's litigious society you can't counter every attack with an immediate chop to the throat, an eye gouge up to your second knuckle(s), and finishing by detonating a random structural limb and/or joint. The same thing goes for any weapon use in a defensive situation.

mercop · April 6th, 2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tros

Logically, a citizen's best tactic is to avoid the situation all together; realistically that doesn't always happen. The gray scale between fight or flee is filled with multiple techniques that an individual should educate themselves on to find which tactics work best for their individual needs.

With that said, mercop, I don't think anybody here is suggesting restraint techniques as a sole form of self defense. It has it's place, but restraint training would have minimal effect on the overall self defense aspect of things. Minimal, but could possibly be what separates a successful defensive situation from an unsuccessful situation.

I guess, in short, I agree with you completely; I just also think a person needs to learn as much as possible so that in the rare instance, every little bit of knowledge will put them in an advantageous position.

Agreed, everyone should be a lifelong student. An example would be first aid. The knowledge of how and wear to apply direct pressure will likely prove more helpful in more scenarios that starting and IV, that does not mean that you should not know how to start one.

April 3rd, 2009, 09:12 AM	#12
semperfi.45 VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Over here now! Posts: 3,343	I lean towards joint manipulation and pain compliance . On the job, it has worked remarkably well and kept my UOF liability and reporting way down. __________________ My art is different from yours; it consists not in defeating others, but in not being defeated.

April 6th, 2009, 03:00 PM	#17
mercop Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: PA Posts: 605	Pain compliance is a form of a psychological stop. The person has to make a mental decision to stop or comply. IMHO it has no place for citizens in reference self defense. It takes experience to know when it is working, otherwise it leads to task fixation which encourage people to remain stationary instead of moving on and through their target. What use would a citizen have to restrain someone during an attack? Isn't the idea to separate from the attacker when safe to do so? How would a citizen know there pressure point was being effective, the bad guy taps or says Uncle?- George __________________ 2010 MCS Calander http://docs.google.com/View?id=dgb7wjh3_299f8tncbcz

April 6th, 2009, 04:06 PM	#18
Tros Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Salina, KS Posts: 433	Logically, a citizen's best tactic is to avoid the situation all together; realistically that doesn't always happen. The gray scale between fight or flee is filled with multiple techniques that an individual should educate themselves on to find which tactics work best for their individual needs. With that said, mercop, I don't think anybody here is suggesting restraint techniques as a sole form of self defense. It has it's place, but restraint training would have minimal effect on the overall self defense aspect of things. Minimal, but could possibly be what separates a successful defensive situation from an unsuccessful situation. I guess, in short, I agree with you completely; I just also think a person needs to learn as much as possible so that in the rare instance, every little bit of knowledge will put them in an advantageous position. __________________ XD-45 w/Stainless Steel Red Cross CPR/First Aid/AED Instructor EX - OC Spray Instructor EX - Restraint Instructor

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April 3rd, 2009, 01:10 AM	#11
dnowell Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: USA Posts: 462	I see pressure points and other hand to hand stuff like that as a good way to deal with a non-lethal violent encounter - say a guy grabbing you in a bar. Not appropriate to draw down, but you have to deal with it.

April 5th, 2009, 05:44 PM	#14
psychophipps Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Washington State Posts: 381	I have the rare joy of being one of those people where pressure points work exactly as advertised. All of them. My friend, however, is one of those people you will never, ever get anything more than a mildly inconvenienced "Ow" out of. Kyusho is one of those skills where practice really makes perfect. My Kempo sensei with more than 30 years of experience can spend an entire 2-hour session whacking you in pressure point after pressure point at combat speeds while I flail around and manage to get one per 25 repetitions or so at such speeds. This points to the need for your core unarmed techniques to be based upon leverage, balance disruption, and effective energy transfer into your target rather than going for the super-fly, ninhitsu Point o' Screaming Death stuff until you've worked at it for...30 years or so. If you can get it right, it's gravy. If not, there is always hitting them in the face again.

April 6th, 2009, 07:50 PM	#19
psychophipps Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Washington State Posts: 381	The best example of an unarmed civilian "Use of Force Continuum", for lack of a better term, I have seen yet came from my Small Circle Jujitsu sensei: Defend Counter Control Destroy It follows an easily describable chain of reactions where you attempt situational avoidance, counter their force with equal force while still attempting to disengage, attempt to subdue and/or control them by the minimum force necessary, and having everything else fail, teach them that their joints do, indeed, bend in the opposite direction of intended use if you really want them to. In today's litigious society you can't counter every attack with an immediate chop to the throat, an eye gouge up to your second knuckle(s), and finishing by detonating a random structural limb and/or joint. The same thing goes for any weapon use in a defensive situation.