David in FL

Mercop didn't say that it wasn't effective, he said that if someone gets their hands on you after being sprayed, they can still hurt you if you don't get out of dodge.

I've been sprayed many times in the military. The stuff works, but it's not magic. Like anything else, you need to be mindful of it's capabilities as well as the limitations.

BTW......I'm an OC fan. I think anyone that carries a lethal form of self-defense should carry and be familiar with a less lethal form as well.

__________________
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt

Saber

There was an account whereby a civilian was confronted in an aggressive manner and he pulled his gun when he feared for his life. The aggressor was not displaying a physical weapon although a reasonable threat of being overpowered was perceived. He was afraid that if attacked, his gun could be found and used against him.
Perhaps, an alternate plan or device may have helped.

Anyway, I have tried out a few different spray devices and the only one I will use is the Kimber PepperBlaster. It’s accurate and cleaner than any other civilian device I’ve found. I purchased two for my female friends and once they viewed the online videos, they were sold. Granted, it is larger and more expensive than the keychain devices although they are superior in every other way. In fact, I feel that many of these small little cans are more of a placebo in comparison. For sure, if the situation permits I would much rather spray or tase an assailant than to shoot them.
Regards,

__________________
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~ Stephen King

David in FL

Interesting. I specifically do not like the PepperBlaster, but everyone's different. I find 2 shots far too limiting and the "projectile" type of delivery less accurate than the more intuitive "spray and adjust" that you get with a cannister delivery.......especially if the user is moving (as they should be) or trying to employ it from a retention position.

My personal preference is a 2 oz Fox Labs.

__________________
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt

diverdown247

This is exactly why the user should be familiar with how the body reacts to pepper spray. Provided he/she is not allergic to it, exposure at some point is the best learning tool. Know what you bought...is it foam, is it stream, is it conical, is it oil based or water based, etc. Each has advantages and disadvantages.

If/when you use it, there's almost a 100% chance you'll be contaminated/exposed. Knowing how to fight through defensive exposure is as much a life saving tool as knowing how to properly use it.

In extremely close proximity, an assailant will likely fight harder if reaction is immediate, simply because they can no longer truly fight. It's a physical reaction as opposed to aggression. It's important to know that OC does take longer to "cook" to be able to work on some folks which may result in them becoming very hostile and aggressive. Take note of the 2 underlined sections in my post, they're important for pepper spray users.

BTW, if you're alergic....don't carry the stuff! Taser C2 is an option for those who are alergic to OC and when a firearm is not a current option.

Saber

I agree, these spray devices and their use is highly situational and I would ultimately prefer a wire-transmitted taser.
Regards,

__________________
“Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
~ Stephen King

ErikGr7

I paid $19 for a can of Sabre Red at a gun store
in up state New York.

I got the same can in a Georgia, gun store for $9...

The price of defense..lol

diverdown247

This is why I love forums! Diverse opinions.

I have coworkers that would rather be Tasered than hit with OC again. Fortunately for them, they have not been Taser Certified! Each has advantages and disadvantages. Personally, I don't like being on the end of Taser barbs!

Time DOES stand still for 5 entire seconds with the X26.

mercop

I doubt that there is a person reading this who has a worse reaction to OC than I do, that said I have been sprayed in training and on the street several times, most of the times accidentally by other police. Not once did it ever take me out of the fight, maybe because was blinded and realized I had to retain my pistol, usually in a crowd.

We are getting some training units and live units from Guardian for training in our Non Ballistic Combative Pistol Courses. I will post my results. For right now OC has no place in my personal protection program. I have this crazy thing about not trusting a tool that can be effected by the wind.- George

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Karter

I think a less than lethal option is good to have. For one thing you can't carry everywhere - especially in North Carolina.

More importantly I think drawing the gun before it is time to use it can greatly complicate a situation. The disparity of force requirement means that against a single unarmed assailant of roughly equal size, you pretty much have to take an ass-whooping or risk homicide charges for use of lethal force. If you fight back and win you are both likely to take misdemeanor charges for fighting, and your open to civil suit if you really hurt him. You'll read about this constantly in martial arts defense circles. If you draw the gun to dissuade a physical confrontation, you may have committed a misdemeanor in your jurisdiction related to brandishing a firearm.

I don't mind taking a punch and then pepper spraying someone. If he wants to continue the fight and I have reason to believe he can maim/kill me with fists/feet then using lethal force is far more defensible after I've tried avoidance, tried less than lethal etc.

That said, I cannot find a satisfactory pepper spray. I thought the Spitfire is great cause it fits in my pocket so easily, it does not encumber my key-ring and comes out easily, pops off the ring easily while the keys in the ignition. But its too trigger happy, with no really good safety.

Today I raised my leg against my desk at work and felt a slight dampness...then a suspicious smell. Yes, it jizzed in my pants. I cleaned out my pocket with a paper towel and was careful not to touch anything with my hands until after washing them but the smell stuck the rest of the day and kept my eyes near watering.


I've heard what police use is a chemical mace different from the OC we can buy. I've been hit with this by a LEO and it was immediately and totally incapacitating, for more than 15 minutes. I wonder about the effectiveness of the OC, it seems like it supposed to more build up an effect over time which is not what the chemical mace did at all.

Janq

But handgun and rifle projectiles are very much effected by wind, too.

People should not look at pepper spray as being a magic talisman of immediate and total incapacitation. Just as folks should not condemn it for not being same.
There is nothing that does this outside of being hit by a .50 cal from a rifle or better. Not even shotguns running 00 buck has such a guaranteed stopped right there no longer in the fight record of use on 100% of all situations used.

What OC/CS is good for though is to either pour cold water on what was moments prior a flaming hot head. What the old folks used to refer to as a 'simma down' solution.
Or it is equally good for creating a momentary diversion as toward the threat which allows the GG civilian or LEO to gain distance such as to flee (!) and/or react in an escalative manner if and when applicable and justifiable. As well it allows LEOs to regroup and better handle an otherwise resisting, and the target may very well still be resisting, but now generally less motivated, distracted, and temporarily reduced power person so as to better be able to restrain them.

As for us in the civilian world it's again not a magic talisman guaranteed stop all solution.
What it is though is a largely viable means toward an end, with quality product, and that end being ability to best react as a defense toward ability to gain distance between he/she and the attacker.
Distance is our very best friend as he's the brother of sister survival.

A can of quality OC/CS is part of my own normal EDC kit including a spare magazine of ammo and a blade too.
None of which OC/CS, gun, or blade offers a 100% function guarantee, regardless of wind conditions.

- Janq

__________________
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
Monday, March 12, 2007 -- Op Ed -- The Washington Post