bigdog21

Freeze + p isn't a law enforcement only spray I carried it as a security officer before switching to sabre red. there are actually very few oc spray companies that wont sell to non leos. CQB is one of them. Aerko is not .

Bones129

I could've sworn Aerko was LE only or used to be, but I guess not. My bad.

JerryM

Hi Bones,

This is not to be argumentative, but to learn.
I recently saw a list of major LE organizations that used Fox OC spray. Locally I know of at least one which used Punch II. I will have to check as to what the local PD uses when I see an officer who comes to church.

I would appreciate statistical evidence to indicate that most do not use OC spray.
You realize that we civilians are not going to use tasers for various reasons. But I notice the evidence of the effectiveness of OC in several of the posts.

Quote
Am J Forensic Med Pathol. 1998 Dec;19(4):309-16.Click here to read

Busker RW, van Helden HP.
TNO Prins Maurits Laboratory, Rijswijk, The Netherlands. busker@pml.tno.nl

"Use by the U.S. police was successful in subduing aggressive individuals in 90% of cases, and a reduction of injury to both police and arrested individuals was noted. In general, pepper spray appeared to be a relatively safe weapon with small risk of causing acute physical harm."
End Quote

In my view 90% is a high percentage of effectiveness.
The indication is that most people cannot fight through it, and even if so, what would you think the person under attack would be doing? One could certainly run and scream or if reasonable use some sort of club or even keys to fight back.

I often see some, especilly LEOs who seem to almost deny the effectiveness of OC spray, but from published data, and limited results by friends in LE it is a effective weapon on most people.
As has been said, even guns do not always incapacitate the BG.

Here is a list of some agencies whic use Fox OC.
http://www.defensedevices.com/lawenagusfox.html

Regards,
Jerry

Janq

Yep...I carry Freeze +P OC/CS as well.
Purchased OTC as sold to anyone with a dollar in hand.

The can though is labeled 'Law Enforcement' though.

- Janq

__________________
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
Monday, March 12, 2007 -- Op Ed -- The Washington Post

Bones129

To clarify what I said about police not carrying OC, I'm not sure what the statistics are, that comment came from my personal experience from departments in my area and other areas where I have been for training, I did not mean to imply that every police department in the US doesn't use OC sprays. As for tasers. If you can afford one as a civilian you can carry and use it the same as mace. However, talking about the taser was more to make the point that you use different tools for different jobs. As for effectiveness, I never said it isn't effictive, I just said if I got one person, I'm gonna use a taser on him because the taser has been proven to be more effective on both people who are and arn't on drugs. I can't tell you of any time I've seen mace not work. In fact I just got off work and a guy ran from one of our officer and got maced in the back of the head and that stopped him real fast.

JerryM

Hi Bones,
Thanks for the clarification.

Regards,
Jerry

Janq

Bones,

When you say the officer used "mace' do you mean 'Mace' branded product because if so that is pepper spray, OC. Mace is in modern times really nothing more than a brand name.
Mace Pepper Spray | Home Protection | Security Systems | Online Super Store!

Real mace 'tear gas' (CN) has largely not been in use in the US for decades, and is banned in Canada.

It's far more common though to see LEO product marketed as being a combination of OC and CS, which is also a tear gas and akin to CN of which CS is a chemical derivative.

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Dorset | CS spray man 'scarred for life'
BBC News | Health | Experts fear unknown CS spray risks

Just an FYI.

- Janq

__________________
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
Monday, March 12, 2007 -- Op Ed -- The Washington Post

Bones129

Naw Janq, he had Freeze+P, I was just refering to it as mace in general and if you scroll down on that page you linked TakeDown® OC-CS MK-IV Stream is made by Mace and it's OC/CS so Mace doesn't just make OC spray.

Janq

Right but my point being Mace brand product is not actual 'mace' which is CN...not CS.

Real world people of a certain age/generation who were around during the 50s, 60s, and 70s hear the word "mace" and boom they think of mace type tear gas.
Not necessarily realizing or knowing that now in modern times mace/CN product is largely out of use by everyone including police. And that the 'Mace' branded product out these days is merely a company brand name toward OC and OC/CS product, no different in chemical composition than anyone else be it Aerko or Fox.

Mace brand as you noted have for some time now been offering combinative OC/CS product.

Anyway okey doke I was just trying to better understand.

- Janq

__________________
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
Monday, March 12, 2007 -- Op Ed -- The Washington Post

Bones129

Oh, alrighty I see what you're saying now janq. I'm just so used to hearing OC and OC/CS sprays called mace, even by guys in their 50s that I've just got in the habit of calling it mace.