Working with a gun in your hand - Page 2

BikerRN · August 22nd, 2009, 05:25 AM

Not to derail this thread, but more to piggyback on what you brought up, this is why I like a flashlight off the gun.

You can keep the gun pointed down, with your finger off the trigger. If you shine the flashlight and are "startled" by Grandma raiding the cookie jar you can keep from putting a bullet in her kiester. Sympathetic and Startle reflex actions are closely linked in many regards, and mimic each other in various ways. I'm no expert, but I do know that if Grandma "startles" me when I flash my light on her the convulsive hand grasping action on the flashlight hand is mimicked by the hand holding the gun.

Just pause for a moment and ask yourself, are you sure your finger is off the trigger in such a sphincter tightening moment? For the average homeowner I'll bet not. This same startle reflex is in motion when you have the light on the gun as you search for what made that "bump in the night". If it's not yet a verified threat do you really want to be pointing a gun at Grandma?

Once you have a verified threat then I'm all for a light on the gun. Until then though, it's a gun and a light in seperate hands. Of course, once I have a verified threat I'm going to a longarm if at all possible.

Sorry for the "hijack" of the thread but I think the two subjects are closely related and wanted to throw that food for thought out there. Many people seem to want to put a light on their gun to aide them when opening doors and such as they search the house for that "bump in the night". Given the "Startle Reflex Response" and "sympathetic reflex response" I have to ask if it's wise to have the light on the gun?

Mr. mercop, if you want me to I'll remove my post, as it does tend to hijack your thread.

Biker

buckeyeLCPL · August 22nd, 2009, 06:11 AM

From personal experience, I know that my finger is off the trigger until the shoot decision is made, and that is based off of a couple of situations I have been in.

As always mercop, an interesting read. I know that we train to do a lot of stuff one handed with a rifle (adding in another aspect above that of just handguns), in order to make sure that we can retain the weapon and use it while still accomplishing the other task. Of course a good sling is an asset in such situations with a rifle. But kicking doors, turning knobs, searching suspects, physically restraining suspects and a million other things are much more difficult to do while utilizing one hand on your rifle.

Just my slight addition.

kellyII · August 22nd, 2009, 08:44 AM

Youre right on about weapons safety, we are trained to keep our trigger finger outside the trigger guard until ready to engage the threat.

We also have to qualify shooting strong side and weak side from both standing and the prone position, I think everyone should practice shooting strong side and weak side from different positions as well.

mercop · August 22nd, 2009, 11:33 AM

+1 on the light mounted on the pistol. I like it for long guns, just makes more sense. But on pistols I am not a fan. I realized that as soon as we got them officers were going to start using them as a flashlight with a gun attached and not a gun with a flashlight attached. Many also stopped carrying a light on their belts.

They do have their uses for shield guns and K-9 handlers. But my finding in classes has been that been that too many citizen students have also adopted the gun light as their primary. You of course will need to illuminate more things that you will need to cover down on. If the only light you have the one on your gun you will eventually point your gun at something that you should not have.

If you do carry a pistol with a dedicated light you should also carry a primary light on your reaction side for regular lighting chores. This also allows you to have another force option for distraction and striking, allowing you to draw with your strong hand.- George

faif2d · August 26th, 2009, 11:18 PM

This was a very interesting thread! I have several new things to practise and think about / try. Thanks for the input.

August 22nd, 2009, 05:25 AM	#11
BikerRN VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: State of Discombobulation Posts: 3,775	Not to derail this thread, but more to piggyback on what you brought up, this is why I like a flashlight off the gun. You can keep the gun pointed down, with your finger off the trigger. If you shine the flashlight and are "startled" by Grandma raiding the cookie jar you can keep from putting a bullet in her kiester. Sympathetic and Startle reflex actions are closely linked in many regards, and mimic each other in various ways. I'm no expert, but I do know that if Grandma "startles" me when I flash my light on her the convulsive hand grasping action on the flashlight hand is mimicked by the hand holding the gun. Just pause for a moment and ask yourself, are you sure your finger is off the trigger in such a sphincter tightening moment? For the average homeowner I'll bet not. This same startle reflex is in motion when you have the light on the gun as you search for what made that "bump in the night". If it's not yet a verified threat do you really want to be pointing a gun at Grandma? Once you have a verified threat then I'm all for a light on the gun. Until then though, it's a gun and a light in seperate hands. Of course, once I have a verified threat I'm going to a longarm if at all possible. Sorry for the "hijack" of the thread but I think the two subjects are closely related and wanted to throw that food for thought out there. Many people seem to want to put a light on their gun to aide them when opening doors and such as they search the house for that "bump in the night". Given the "Startle Reflex Response" and "sympathetic reflex response" I have to ask if it's wise to have the light on the gun? Mr. mercop, if you want me to I'll remove my post, as it does tend to hijack your thread. Biker __________________ If I knew I was going to get in to a gunfight I most ceratinly wouln't bring a handgun or two, and I don't know any smart person that does.

August 22nd, 2009, 06:11 AM	#12
buckeyeLCPL VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Somestanplace Posts: 2,996	From personal experience, I know that my finger is off the trigger until the shoot decision is made, and that is based off of a couple of situations I have been in. As always mercop, an interesting read. I know that we train to do a lot of stuff one handed with a rifle (adding in another aspect above that of just handguns), in order to make sure that we can retain the weapon and use it while still accomplishing the other task. Of course a good sling is an asset in such situations with a rifle. But kicking doors, turning knobs, searching suspects, physically restraining suspects and a million other things are much more difficult to do while utilizing one hand on your rifle. Just my slight addition. __________________ Fortes Fortuna Juvat We're mules lad. Mules that kill. TJR

August 22nd, 2009, 08:44 AM	#13
kellyII Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baghdad, Iraq Posts: 399	Youre right on about weapons safety, we are trained to keep our trigger finger outside the trigger guard until ready to engage the threat. We also have to qualify shooting strong side and weak side from both standing and the prone position, I think everyone should practice shooting strong side and weak side from different positions as well. __________________ "History does not entrust the care of Freedom to the weak and Timid: General Dwight Eisenhouser

August 22nd, 2009, 11:33 AM	#14
mercop Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: PA Posts: 608	+1 on the light mounted on the pistol. I like it for long guns, just makes more sense. But on pistols I am not a fan. I realized that as soon as we got them officers were going to start using them as a flashlight with a gun attached and not a gun with a flashlight attached. Many also stopped carrying a light on their belts. They do have their uses for shield guns and K-9 handlers. But my finding in classes has been that been that too many citizen students have also adopted the gun light as their primary. You of course will need to illuminate more things that you will need to cover down on. If the only light you have the one on your gun you will eventually point your gun at something that you should not have. If you do carry a pistol with a dedicated light you should also carry a primary light on your reaction side for regular lighting chores. This also allows you to have another force option for distraction and striking, allowing you to draw with your strong hand.- George __________________ 2010 MCS Calander http://docs.google.com/View?id=dgb7wjh3_299f8tncbcz

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August 26th, 2009, 11:18 PM	#15
faif2d Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 69	This was a very interesting thread! I have several new things to practise and think about / try. Thanks for the input.