Drawing and shooting from inside a vehicle?

10thmtn · October 2nd, 2009, 12:29 PM

This issue has come up a few times lately. For those concerned about drawing quickly while seated in a vehicle, I would ask you consider the following.

A vehicle offers virtually no ballistic protection from incoming fire. Staying inside an immobile vehicle and attempting to fire on attackers outside the vehicle basically makes you a static target. Vehicles are “bullet magnets.” Not only do you need to worry about incoming bullets and their fragments, but you can also be injured by flying shrapnel (called “spall”) from bits of your car that go flying around inside. (This is the reason armored vehicles have “spall liners” of Kevlar-like fabric to protect the crew from ricocheting bits of shrapnel.)

Spall is also an issue from your outgoing fire, especially if you fire through your vehicle’s glass. Your own bullets will cause spall inside. Then there is the noise, the concussion, and your own hot, sharp brass flying around.

What this all means is that you should avoid trying to fight from inside an immobile vehicle at all costs. If your vehicle can’t move (you’re boxed in), get out and fight on foot. Even if you have people in the vehicle, getting out will draw fire away from them.

Instead of worrying about executing a fast draw while in your vehicle, the priority should be to practice getting out as quickly and cleanly as you can (get the seatbelt off and out of the way, open the door and brace it so it does not rebound on you as you exit).

Of course, if you can drive away from danger – do so, even if you damage your vehicle in the process. Be alert, and try to leave yourself an escape route. Remember that your escape route may involve going in reverse – quickly. Watch some combat driving training videos, and learn how to use your vehicle as a weapon – it is more powerful than any handgun.

Caveat – if you are elderly or disabled, and cannot quickly exit your vehicle, then being able to quickly draw a weapon while inside your vehicle may indeed be your only option. Otherwise, in summary:

If you see trouble coming, and can drive away – drive away!

If you see trouble coming, but cannot drive away – get out of the vehicle!

If you are caught by surprise and cannot drive away – pray, feign compliance, and get out of the vehicle. Once out, move! This is a bad scenario, but you aren’t going to outdraw an already drawn gun. Distraction, movement, guile, and luck are what is needed here.

Hope this sparks some thought…

hazmat · October 2nd, 2009, 05:09 PM

Flash Intro Page

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varob · October 2nd, 2009, 05:51 PM

Good tips, thanks.

Thumper · October 2nd, 2009, 06:03 PM

Good post!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10thmtn

Caveat – if you are elderly or disabled, and cannot quickly exit your vehicle, then being able to quickly draw a weapon while inside your vehicle may indeed be your only option.

Or for any number of reasons why you can not exit the vehicle or were caught by surprise, it would be very wise to have practiced this complicated maneuver so that you can indeed exercise it immediately and effectively!

I certainly agree with the following:

Quote:

If you are caught by surprise and cannot drive away – pray, feign compliance, and get out of the vehicle. Once out, move! This is a bad scenario, but you aren’t going to outdraw an already drawn gun. Distraction, movement, guile, and luck are what is needed here.

BradyM77 · October 2nd, 2009, 10:23 PM

Shooting USA just had a Shooting Tip from Todd Jarret about shooting from inside a vehicle. Here's a link to it JARRETT4-5

Also everybody should goto the box'o'truth website and check out their tests of what happens to rounds while penetrating a vehicle. Here's a link to them The Box O' Truth - The Buick O' Truth

mercop · October 2nd, 2009, 10:41 PM

Training to fight out of a car is easier if you are alone. The problem comes in when you have someone else with you. As the OP explained fighting from inside the car sucks. If your tactics involve things besides the use of a firearm you will hopefully have room between you and the car in front of you even if it means hopping a curb. If not you need to unass the car and take physical control if you have someone with you that cannot protect themselves.

Even removing the seat belt under this stress takes time and training. Good thread. This is where owning airsoft can be a huge benefit.- George

gottabkiddin · October 3rd, 2009, 09:18 AM

Good advice. Thanks for the post and insight

retsupt99 · October 3rd, 2009, 10:31 AM

10thmtm and BradyM77...both have info worth reading...thanks.

Nova · October 3rd, 2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10thmtn

Remember that your escape route may involve going in reverse – quickly. Watch some combat driving training videos, and learn how to use your vehicle as a weapon – it is more powerful than any handgun.

This is golden advice - knowing how to back up quickly is so impotant. I learned this first hand in DC when some dude got out of his car to "talk" to me.

fm2 · October 3rd, 2009, 06:49 PM

I'll add in:
1) Be mindful of when you put on your seatbelt

2) when you take off your seatbelt.

3) how you unbuckle/buckle and stow the seatbelt.

1, example, I don't know the number, but I see many people buckled in their car sitting in a parking space talking on their cell phone,etc... whith the motor running.

2, example, I usually take my seatbelt off when I pull into the parking lot. I have seen people park, remove the keys and put them in their purse,or grab gear (calculator, phone, etc.) with key in hand, THEN take off the seatbelt.

3, example, I like to unbuckle and help or guide the seatbelt to it's final position. Some people hit the release button and they get tangled in it with their gear, body, clothes, etc.. It would be much better to use the unbuckling to get a practice rep in of clearing the seatbelt than waste it.

October 2nd, 2009, 12:29 PM	#1
10thmtn Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: USA Posts: 656	Drawing and shooting from inside a vehicle? This issue has come up a few times lately. For those concerned about drawing quickly while seated in a vehicle, I would ask you consider the following. A vehicle offers virtually no ballistic protection from incoming fire. Staying inside an immobile vehicle and attempting to fire on attackers outside the vehicle basically makes you a static target. Vehicles are “bullet magnets.” Not only do you need to worry about incoming bullets and their fragments, but you can also be injured by flying shrapnel (called “spall”) from bits of your car that go flying around inside. (This is the reason armored vehicles have “spall liners” of Kevlar-like fabric to protect the crew from ricocheting bits of shrapnel.) Spall is also an issue from your outgoing fire, especially if you fire through your vehicle’s glass. Your own bullets will cause spall inside. Then there is the noise, the concussion, and your own hot, sharp brass flying around. What this all means is that you should avoid trying to fight from inside an immobile vehicle at all costs. If your vehicle can’t move (you’re boxed in), get out and fight on foot. Even if you have people in the vehicle, getting out will draw fire away from them. Instead of worrying about executing a fast draw while in your vehicle, the priority should be to practice getting out as quickly and cleanly as you can (get the seatbelt off and out of the way, open the door and brace it so it does not rebound on you as you exit). Of course, if you can drive away from danger – do so, even if you damage your vehicle in the process. Be alert, and try to leave yourself an escape route. Remember that your escape route may involve going in reverse – quickly. Watch some combat driving training videos, and learn how to use your vehicle as a weapon – it is more powerful than any handgun. Caveat – if you are elderly or disabled, and cannot quickly exit your vehicle, then being able to quickly draw a weapon while inside your vehicle may indeed be your only option. Otherwise, in summary: If you see trouble coming, and can drive away – drive away! If you see trouble coming, but cannot drive away – get out of the vehicle! If you are caught by surprise and cannot drive away – pray, feign compliance, and get out of the vehicle. Once out, move! This is a bad scenario, but you aren’t going to outdraw an already drawn gun. Distraction, movement, guile, and luck are what is needed here. Hope this sparks some thought… __________________ The People ARE the Militia, and have a DUTY (not just a right) to be both armed and proficient in the use of said arms. Ex-Army officer; Hurricane Andrew Relief, FL, 1992; Operation Restore Hope, Somalia, 1993 NRA Life Member; Range Safety Officer Glock 26, CT Laserguard, Smartcarry

October 2nd, 2009, 05:51 PM	#3
varob Distinguished Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,273	Good tips, thanks. __________________ Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see! -Tony Soprano

October 2nd, 2009, 10:23 PM	#5
BradyM77 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 635	Shooting USA just had a Shooting Tip from Todd Jarret about shooting from inside a vehicle. Here's a link to it JARRETT4-5 Also everybody should goto the box'o'truth website and check out their tests of what happens to rounds while penetrating a vehicle. Here's a link to them The Box O' Truth - The Buick O' Truth __________________ Having a gun and saying you're armed is like having a guitar and saying you're a musician. Jeff Cooper

October 2nd, 2009, 10:41 PM	#6
mercop Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: PA Posts: 605	Training to fight out of a car is easier if you are alone. The problem comes in when you have someone else with you. As the OP explained fighting from inside the car sucks. If your tactics involve things besides the use of a firearm you will hopefully have room between you and the car in front of you even if it means hopping a curb. If not you need to unass the car and take physical control if you have someone with you that cannot protect themselves. Even removing the seat belt under this stress takes time and training. Good thread. This is where owning airsoft can be a huge benefit.- George __________________ 2010 MCS Calander http://docs.google.com/View?id=dgb7wjh3_299f8tncbcz

October 3rd, 2009, 09:18 AM	#7
gottabkiddin Distinguished Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Earth, 33°46'18.21"N 84°23'21.87"W Posts: 1,323	Good advice. Thanks for the post and insight __________________ When seconds count, a Cop is only minutes away. Never hit anyone in anger unless you're sure you can get away with it. "Russell Ziskey" Glock 36, Kahr CW9, Glock 23, Taurus 24 7 Pro DS, Ruger LCP, S&W 642...ect

October 2nd, 2009, 05:09 PM	#2
hazmat Ex Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Missouri Posts: 1	Flash Intro Page http://avops.us/home.php

October 3rd, 2009, 10:31 AM	#8
retsupt99 VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 22,720	10thmtm and BradyM77...both have info worth reading...thanks. __________________ "That I cannot do." "Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks." *********************************** NRA Life Member

October 3rd, 2009, 06:49 PM	#10
fm2 Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: TX Posts: 85	I'll add in: 1) Be mindful of when you put on your seatbelt 2) when you take off your seatbelt. 3) how you unbuckle/buckle and stow the seatbelt. 1, example, I don't know the number, but I see many people buckled in their car sitting in a parking space talking on their cell phone,etc... whith the motor running. 2, example, I usually take my seatbelt off when I pull into the parking lot. I have seen people park, remove the keys and put them in their purse,or grab gear (calculator, phone, etc.) with key in hand, THEN take off the seatbelt. 3, example, I like to unbuckle and help or guide the seatbelt to it's final position. Some people hit the release button and they get tangled in it with their gear, body, clothes, etc.. It would be much better to use the unbuckling to get a practice rep in of clearing the seatbelt than waste it.

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