What would you look for in a defensive class?

Phoebe · October 11th, 2009, 03:45 PM

I've had most people tell me that martial arts is worthless for SD until years have gone by. (Makes sense. The focus is on form.)

Some people have told me that even SD classes are worthless without years of training.

I was looking at a member's site that does classes that look intriguing. Basically, dirty street fighting, with knives, guns, empty hand, etc. They aren't local and I wouldn't travel that far for class. but it seems like that's the kind of thing I'd want.

I posted some vids from that site and a friend tore them apart, suggesting it was a crud mix of martial arts with some possibly fatal mistakes.

I'm not necessarily buying it.

But it brings up the fact that I have no clue how to evaluate SD offerings.

I've looked at Krav Maga, figuring if it's good enough for the Israeli Army, it's good enough for me. But again, had people nay say it. (And KM doesn't include pistol, afaik.)

Ideally, I'd like to find a place that is 100% focused on SD, rather than "art" or "tradition", and ideally it would include pistol as well as blade and empty hand.

What would you look for if you were female or for a female in your life looking to improve SD skills and SD pistol?

HotGuns · October 11th, 2009, 03:47 PM

Attitude.

Phoebe · October 11th, 2009, 04:33 PM

EVERYBODY has attitude!! That's part of the problem!

HotGuns · October 11th, 2009, 04:42 PM

That is correct.

Finding a teacher with the right one will not be easy.

jdsumner · October 11th, 2009, 04:54 PM

"What would you look for if you were female or for a female in your life looking to improve SD skills and SD pistol?"-Phoebe

I will not attempt to answer this as from strictly a 'female' point of view, because, well, I aint one.
But I will try to answer in what I hope is a useful manor.
Relevance. I'd look for an instructor to teach relevant things. Not how to fast-rope out of a chopper onto a moving speedboat. But someone who can assess my skill, adaptability and weaknesses, and help me work on things that will allow me to detect, avoid, evade, de-escelate, confront, outsmart and overcome an adversary or adversaries. I dont think I'd necessarily look for an instructor who wants to put his name on all his new techniques. Nothing new under the sun. I'd look for someone who is teaching tried and true techniques regardless of who has their name on them.
In order to determine potential instructor's relevance to my situation, I'd make a detailed list of what I perceive my needs are. Then I'd research my list of potential instructors and see who can come closest to bringing that 'package' of info to me. Once I had that list, I'd ask the instructor or school if they may have some contacts who have taken their courses in order to hear first hand accounts of what those people took away from that instructor or school.

I hope this helps.

dan

retsupt99 · October 11th, 2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdsumner

"What would you look for if you were female or for a female in your life looking to improve SD skills and SD pistol?"-Phoebe

I will not attempt to answer this as from strictly a 'female' point of view, because, well, I aint one.
But I will try to answer in what I hope is a useful manor.
Relevance. I'd look for an instructor to teach relevant things. Not how to fast-rope out of a chopper onto a moving speedboat. But someone who can assess my skill, adaptability and weaknesses, and help me work on things that will allow me to detect, avoid, evade, de-escelate, confront, outsmart and overcome an adversary or adversaries. I dont think I'd necessarily look for an instructor who wants to put his name on all his new techniques. Nothing new under the sun. I'd look for someone who is teaching tried and true techniques regardless of who has their name on them.
In order to determine potential instructor's relevance to my situation, I'd make a detailed list of what I perceive my needs are. Then I'd research my list of potential instructors and see who can come closest to bringing that 'package' of info to me. Once I had that list, I'd ask the instructor or school if they may have some contacts who have taken their courses in order to hear first hand accounts of what those people took away from that instructor or school.

I hope this helps.

dan

What a great explanation...and Relevance is the 'key'.

Eagleks · October 11th, 2009, 10:15 PM

I was in martial arts... not the tournament oriented martial arts that is present today. We did learn weapons, etc. I don't know if you can find good training like we got anymore... without serious searching.

However, I taught my daughter several things when she was young that were solely to 'protect' or ward off an aggressor, and to take them down or out in a hurry. It must have worked.... she's 5'2" tall, and the guy who tried to grab her (6'1" tall & a long rap sheet for rape) got his rear kicked. When the police talked to me, they couldn't stop laughing, because the guy was rather messed up and bloody on the ground.... and he refused to get up .... he was afraid she'll get him again.

The other thing you need is the "mentality and willingess" to do whatever it is you need to in order to protect yourself, including hurting and/or maiming them if needed.

It takes finding the 'right' person with the knowledge, who's willing to teach you just those type of things...... they often do not like to do that. Some of the classes I've seen, were a joke. Here's how to flip a person attacking you. Ok, well that helps, but it isn't going to stop them from getting up either... so you have to know the rest too.

fm2 · October 11th, 2009, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoebe

I've had most people tell me that martial arts is worthless for SD until years have gone by. (Makes sense. The focus is on form.)

That's because the context and focus is different. That's not to say that some attributes don't transfer. There is going to be some physicallity involved in a good SD program that's lacking in some martial arts.

Phoebe · October 12th, 2009, 12:54 AM

Eagleks, that's a great story!

I'm having some disagreements with friends who think I should study martial arts. The same group of folks seem to think an over-reliance on firearms is stupid. (These are not antis...and to some extent the point is well taken. The gun is not a magic talisman. I recognize that gun needs to go with training. But there seems to be some other issue the one friend has.)

I have yet to find anything that sounds precisely suited to what I think I need.

redline4200 · October 12th, 2009, 01:03 AM

"We shoot bad guys!"

This should be the theme of a good class on self defense. That is what it is about, isn't it? I just went through a 5 hour class on Gunfighting in Urban Dwellings. WOW! To quote the old Malt-O-Meal comercial...."It's good stuff Maynard!" YouTube - Malt-O-Meal - "Good Stuff, Maynard!" (Commercial, 1983)

Try here: Colorado Shooting Sports • AK Lightning Bolt™ • Firearms • Ammunition • Training • Tactical Gear

xSerenityx · October 12th, 2009, 01:30 AM

I took Krav Maga and in my class there was pistol stuff. It was also the only martial art that I took that really taught about situational awareness. I had taken other forms of martial arts that were all about the "sensei" and the "kata" and the "honor" and the "way." And I wanted someone to teach me down and dirty stay alive fighting. The first day at Krav Maga I was told "there only rule is: do whatever you have to do to stay alive!"

I liked the emphasis on physical fitness, which I thought was important. Then I liked the drills. Everything changed when people were going at real speed, in the dark, or with the strobe light on, and you're getting pounded by pads and you have to find some way out and you're not given a formula to do it.

We trained with airsoft guns. We would have to disarm, or to fire before someone disarmed us. We were taught to pick up someone else's weapon if they dropped it. We were taught not how to use the guns, but to use them if they were available and the best tools around.

I got hit a lot in Krav Maga. It was good to learn how to take a punch, to stop worrying about getting hit so much and learning to just accept it and get back to fighting and going on the offensive as soon as possible.

It was definitely illuminating, trailing with the airsoft guns, because you realize how fast you can get hit if you're not moving and finding cover.

Krav Maga was all I had before turning 21. That and pepper spray. Just the other night I was in a dark parking lot. I looked around, looked under my car and in the backseat. Didn't see anything so I started to unlock it. Then I heard someone calling "hey!" and this guy was running across the parking lot at me. I automatically went into my fight stance from Krav Maga-- chin lowered, hands protecting my face but open, knees slightly bent. My open hand almost looked like a signal to stop, and he did, and then said he needed money. I said I didn't have any and he kept asking but I kept saying no. I didn't know if this was the interview process or not but eventually he left me alone. He was coming at me so fast though that it was my instant reaction, to get into that stance and be prepared.

There are other times when I've used the fall breaks to help myself automatically. I do highly recommend Krav Maga, but with the right teacher. My first teacher was an ex-Green Beret and my second teacher was the highest ranked woman in the US who had trained in Israel and she had been in some nasty situations. It's not enough to have a trained instructor, I want one who's actually been there and had to live through it.

One of the best things Krav Maga taught was-- you got it-- attitude. The "I'm gonna live no matter what" attitude. That when it comes to your life, you don't quit fighting for anything. To use whatever is at your disposal to defend your life, be it a firearm or a brick or your teeth.

Kathy (my second teacher) told me that when you're in a real fight, you have to explode into violence, that that is what is going to win. That it ends in seconds, not minutes like the movies. That you have a "go" button and you need to figure out what that is before you get into the situation. I had already decided what those were before I applied for my CFP.

Honestly? Crap may happen where you don't get to carry a gun. Maybe it's a campus where they've disarmed you, or a federal building, or maybe it's oversees. It sucks. But it might happen. And having additional skills, even if they're not as effective as a gun, may just be the difference between life or death.

MinistrMalic · October 12th, 2009, 10:24 AM

Phoebe, I disagree that martial arts take years to be useful. If you find the right art you should gain in ability and competence from your first class! A good instructor will help you take your strengths and use them to your best advantage.

I like Krav, and it is a brutal and combat tested art. For me, though, Krav takes too much physical strength. I want to be able to use my art when I am older and less able to muscle someone.

I study American Kenpo in a school that is focused on self defense and situational awareness in AZ. I have been studying for about 3 1/2 years and I love it. We are more unarmed than armed, but in private lessons we work on armed combat of all types. Find a school like that in your area and take a few classes. See how it goes. If you don't like the instructor or the attitude of the school move on to another. Don't get discouraged if it takes a bit to find a good fit.

I think if you expect to be able to be competent in armed and unarmed defense in a few classes you have set an unrealistic expectation for yourself, so commit to the process of improvement and get after it! As you improve your confidence will go up, and so will your learning curve. IMO martial arts are a vital component of a SD repertoire, so don't sell yourself short by relying on the "magic talisman" as you put it. :)

Patti · October 12th, 2009, 11:01 AM

Phoebe,

I've taken Bob (Thunder) Thurman's self-defense class, and it was very helpful.

Bob take's his class on the road....so if you can get enough people to sign up, he might be willing to come to your area.

Counter Attactics

He also has a training video:

Counter Attactics

But I'd recommend taking some classes instead of just watching a video.

You might also call your local P.D. and ask if they offer classes in self-defense.

You might also call your local fitness gym. Sometimes they offer self-defense classes.

Remember: Anything is better than nothing.

kazzaerexys · October 12th, 2009, 12:41 PM

Phoebe, here's my two cents. It takes years of martial arts...to be able to fight effectively against other trained martial artists. Similarly, no weekend self-defense gun course is going to put you in a league with long-time competitive action shooters.

But self-defense is usually more about defeating aggression rather than defeating skill. Oh, yes, there are hardened career criminals who do serious training behind bars or after they get out, and if you end up against one of them you have really gotten a short straw, but meeting up with one of those folks is a low-probability event in the already low-probability world of armed self-defense. If you read most of the "Drew My Gun" or "Close Call Tonight" threads around here, though, you will see that is not how most of these situations usually happen.

Particularly if you are somebody who can come across as a 'soft target' (and I would, hopefully without being accused of sexism,

figure that most women fall in that category for the average criminal), you may end up in a bad situation precisely because one of the common, garden-variety criminals who isn't ready for a real fight picks you out for an easy score.

This is where the previous comments about attitude and relevance come into play, I think. If you can confront an aggressive advance with the attitude that you will not be easy prey, and if you have found a self-defense course that provides you with the relevant skills for a couple of quick and dirty moves to give you time to get away or draw your gun, you will be doing well.

If you are thinking about ongoing training in some sort of martial art, you should be able to sit in at the salle/dojo for a few classes to get a feel for the instructor and his students. Ask questions there. That should let you figure out whether the training being offered is the sort of direct, street-effective skills you think you need. If you are looking at signing up for a three or four day seminar type class, there should be plenty of reviews around or even people on this board who have been there, done that.

I've taken American Kenpo in the past and found it very easy to take from that some basic fighting moves to teach to women I know who were looking for some intro to self-defense. Everything I have read, heard, or seen about Krav Maga tells me that, with the right instructor, that could be very effective, too. Those would probably be my top two recommendations as far as styles go, but even a RAD class at a community college could be a good start to help you develop the skills for evaluating future training on your own.

(Okay, must be inflation---that was more like fifteen cents, I think.

)

BRTCP88 · October 12th, 2009, 02:01 PM

I took Yoshinkan Aikido for three months while I was in Canada last year visiting my sister who's studying art up there. I also dabbled in Jiu-Jitsu. I've been searching for a dojo to continue my training ever since.

Aikido isn't as aggressive as Krav Maga. The Green Berets don't use it. But I still feel comfortable that I could use it in a SD situation. And as MinisterMalic said, Krav takes strength, in Aikido you use the force of your opponent's attack so even small women, the elderly, and overweight slobs like me can effectively use it, lol. I actually tried to get my sister to take Aikido with me, but she wasn't interested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagleks

Some of the classes I've seen, were a joke. Here's how to flip a person attacking you. Ok, well that helps, but it isn't going to stop them from getting up either... so you have to know the rest too.

If you did some of the flips in Aikido or Jiu-Jitsu on an asphalt street instead of a padded mat, the attacker would either have a broken spine or his skull would get cracked open, so he's not getting up.

Phoebe · October 12th, 2009, 09:19 PM

Whoa! I took a Krav Maga class!

That which doesn't kill me, will make me stronger (I hope!!!)

That was the most killer workout I've ever done in my life. I go to the gym regularly and there is no way that prepared me for KM.

The focus is strictly on SD. No rules. They do teach weapons as well as empty hand fof. I'm not sure if they train with airsoft. They have something like blue guns, but didn't see any airsofts. I hope they do that training too.

In one class, I believe I can defend myself better than I could before the class. I'm told that in 2-3 months I can take their fight class.

My little taste of fighting today, left me wanting to fall down and throw up. (2 minutes of "identify target" and kick or punch...in a 2 on 1 scenario. It was the longest 2 minutes of my life. I thought I was going to die. The KM motto is, "never quit", but I sure wanted to have the teacher tell me that my 30 seconds were good enough.)

Seems like a less strength based system would help round things out at a later date. But I'm not super strong, yet felt like I packed a good wallop with both my legs (no surprise there, my legs are strong) and my hands (wow, really?! Yes!)

If nothing else, I'm sure my fitness will go through the ceiling. I can probably quit my gym.

xSerenityx · October 13th, 2009, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoebe

Whoa! I took a Krav Maga class!

That which doesn't kill me, will make me stronger (I hope!!!)

That was the most killer workout I've ever done in my life. I go to the gym regularly and there is no way that prepared me for KM.

The focus is strictly on SD. No rules. They do teach weapons as well as empty hand fof. I'm not sure if they train with airsoft. They have something like blue guns, but didn't see any airsofts. I hope they do that training too.

In one class, I believe I can defend myself better than I could before the class. I'm told that in 2-3 months I can take their fight class.

My little taste of fighting today, left me wanting to fall down and throw up. (2 minutes of "identify target" and kick or punch...in a 2 on 1 scenario. It was the longest 2 minutes of my life. I thought I was going to die. The KM motto is, "never quit", but I sure wanted to have the teacher tell me that my 30 seconds were good enough.)

Seems like a less strength based system would help round things out at a later date. But I'm not super strong, yet felt like I packed a good wallop with both my legs (no surprise there, my legs are strong) and my hands (wow, really?! Yes!)

If nothing else, I'm sure my fitness will go through the ceiling. I can probably quit my gym.

:D Phoebe, your experience sounds like mine! It IS a huge workout! I remember one drill where I would have to keep punching pads for 5 minutes, but they would loop a belt around my waist and tug me back from the pads. By the time the 5 minutes was up I was dripping with sweat. But it taught me to keep going!

I am definitely not strong (upper body strength? ha!) but I have never had an issue with KM because of that... speed is another thing, not just strength, that it teaches... Speed can turn a little bit of mass into something nasty.

Phoebe · October 13th, 2009, 01:25 PM

I feel like I was hit by a truck today.

Honestly, I thought I was in decent shape. Crap upper body strength, but I have been lifting weights regularly for 4 months to try to build that up.

The whole top of my body hurts! My obliques hurt.

From videos I've watched, I can see how KM fits in with pistols. Even if they don't train it, it's a no-brainer.

CC + KM = one "don't try to hurt me or you will badly regret it"

How long did you train for? I'm looking at making a one year commitment.

Did you do full contact fof?

1980Maico440 · October 13th, 2009, 01:46 PM

Sounds like you have hit on one key ingredient required IMO for any course of study- enthusiasm.

Physical activity, grappling, fighting etc can definitely improve attitude. Its not something most people are comfortable with, and many people are simply overwhelmed when presented a physical threat. Good for you for following thru with your interest.

fwiw- Be careful of falling into the trap of "i brought a martial arts arsenal to a gunfight" syndrome.

packinnova · October 13th, 2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoebe

Whoa! I took a Krav Maga class!

That which doesn't kill me, will make me stronger (I hope!!!)

That was the most killer workout I've ever done in my life. I go to the gym regularly and there is no way that prepared me for KM.

The focus is strictly on SD. No rules. They do teach weapons as well as empty hand fof. I'm not sure if they train with airsoft. They have something like blue guns, but didn't see any airsofts. I hope they do that training too.

In one class, I believe I can defend myself better than I could before the class. I'm told that in 2-3 months I can take their fight class.

My little taste of fighting today, left me wanting to fall down and throw up. (2 minutes of "identify target" and kick or punch...in a 2 on 1 scenario. It was the longest 2 minutes of my life. I thought I was going to die. The KM motto is, "never quit", but I sure wanted to have the teacher tell me that my 30 seconds were good enough.)

Seems like a less strength based system would help round things out at a later date. But I'm not super strong, yet felt like I packed a good wallop with both my legs (no surprise there, my legs are strong) and my hands (wow, really?! Yes!)

If nothing else, I'm sure my fitness will go through the ceiling. I can probably quit my gym.

Can you elaborate on the "fight" class? Are they affiliated with the FIGHT system(Haganah)...or is this just basically their full contact/sparring session?

October 11th, 2009, 03:45 PM	#1
Phoebe Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: wild west Posts: 93	What would you look for in a defensive class? I've had most people tell me that martial arts is worthless for SD until years have gone by. (Makes sense. The focus is on form.) Some people have told me that even SD classes are worthless without years of training. I was looking at a member's site that does classes that look intriguing. Basically, dirty street fighting, with knives, guns, empty hand, etc. They aren't local and I wouldn't travel that far for class. but it seems like that's the kind of thing I'd want. I posted some vids from that site and a friend tore them apart, suggesting it was a crud mix of martial arts with some possibly fatal mistakes. I'm not necessarily buying it. But it brings up the fact that I have no clue how to evaluate SD offerings. I've looked at Krav Maga, figuring if it's good enough for the Israeli Army, it's good enough for me. But again, had people nay say it. (And KM doesn't include pistol, afaik.) Ideally, I'd like to find a place that is 100% focused on SD, rather than "art" or "tradition", and ideally it would include pistol as well as blade and empty hand. What would you look for if you were female or for a female in your life looking to improve SD skills and SD pistol?

October 11th, 2009, 03:47 PM	#2
HotGuns Senior Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,433	Attitude. __________________ AR. CHL Instr. WE ARE NOT HUMAN BEINGS GOING THROUGH A TEMPORARY SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE. WE ARE SPIRITUAL BEINGS GOING THROUGH A TEMPORARY HUMAN EXPERIENCE

October 11th, 2009, 04:42 PM	#4
HotGuns Senior Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,433	That is correct. Finding a teacher with the right one will not be easy. __________________ AR. CHL Instr. WE ARE NOT HUMAN BEINGS GOING THROUGH A TEMPORARY SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE. WE ARE SPIRITUAL BEINGS GOING THROUGH A TEMPORARY HUMAN EXPERIENCE

October 12th, 2009, 10:24 AM	#12
MinistrMalic Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 798	Phoebe, I disagree that martial arts take years to be useful. If you find the right art you should gain in ability and competence from your first class! A good instructor will help you take your strengths and use them to your best advantage. I like Krav, and it is a brutal and combat tested art. For me, though, Krav takes too much physical strength. I want to be able to use my art when I am older and less able to muscle someone. I study American Kenpo in a school that is focused on self defense and situational awareness in AZ. I have been studying for about 3 1/2 years and I love it. We are more unarmed than armed, but in private lessons we work on armed combat of all types. Find a school like that in your area and take a few classes. See how it goes. If you don't like the instructor or the attitude of the school move on to another. Don't get discouraged if it takes a bit to find a good fit. I think if you expect to be able to be competent in armed and unarmed defense in a few classes you have set an unrealistic expectation for yourself, so commit to the process of improvement and get after it! As you improve your confidence will go up, and so will your learning curve. IMO martial arts are a vital component of a SD repertoire, so don't sell yourself short by relying on the "magic talisman" as you put it. :) __________________ "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36) Here is my blog if you're interested :)

October 12th, 2009, 11:01 AM	#13
Patti Distinguished Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Missouri, The Show Me State Posts: 1,452	Phoebe, I've taken Bob (Thunder) Thurman's self-defense class, and it was very helpful. Bob take's his class on the road....so if you can get enough people to sign up, he might be willing to come to your area. Counter Attactics He also has a training video: Counter Attactics But I'd recommend taking some classes instead of just watching a video. You might also call your local P.D. and ask if they offer classes in self-defense. You might also call your local fitness gym. Sometimes they offer self-defense classes. Remember: Anything is better than nothing. __________________ Sometimes on a clear day, I can see into the future with this spotting scope.

October 11th, 2009, 04:33 PM	#3
Phoebe Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: wild west Posts: 93	EVERYBODY has attitude!! That's part of the problem!

October 11th, 2009, 04:54 PM	#5
jdsumner Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: riverview, fl Posts: 497	"What would you look for if you were female or for a female in your life looking to improve SD skills and SD pistol?"-Phoebe I will not attempt to answer this as from strictly a 'female' point of view, because, well, I aint one. But I will try to answer in what I hope is a useful manor. Relevance. I'd look for an instructor to teach relevant things. Not how to fast-rope out of a chopper onto a moving speedboat. But someone who can assess my skill, adaptability and weaknesses, and help me work on things that will allow me to detect, avoid, evade, de-escelate, confront, outsmart and overcome an adversary or adversaries. I dont think I'd necessarily look for an instructor who wants to put his name on all his new techniques. Nothing new under the sun. I'd look for someone who is teaching tried and true techniques regardless of who has their name on them. In order to determine potential instructor's relevance to my situation, I'd make a detailed list of what I perceive my needs are. Then I'd research my list of potential instructors and see who can come closest to bringing that 'package' of info to me. Once I had that list, I'd ask the instructor or school if they may have some contacts who have taken their courses in order to hear first hand accounts of what those people took away from that instructor or school. I hope this helps. dan

October 11th, 2009, 10:15 PM	#7
Eagleks VIP Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 2,304	I was in martial arts... not the tournament oriented martial arts that is present today. We did learn weapons, etc. I don't know if you can find good training like we got anymore... without serious searching. However, I taught my daughter several things when she was young that were solely to 'protect' or ward off an aggressor, and to take them down or out in a hurry. It must have worked.... she's 5'2" tall, and the guy who tried to grab her (6'1" tall & a long rap sheet for rape) got his rear kicked. When the police talked to me, they couldn't stop laughing, because the guy was rather messed up and bloody on the ground.... and he refused to get up .... he was afraid she'll get him again. The other thing you need is the "mentality and willingess" to do whatever it is you need to in order to protect yourself, including hurting and/or maiming them if needed. It takes finding the 'right' person with the knowledge, who's willing to teach you just those type of things...... they often do not like to do that. Some of the classes I've seen, were a joke. Here's how to flip a person attacking you. Ok, well that helps, but it isn't going to stop them from getting up either... so you have to know the rest too.

October 12th, 2009, 12:54 AM	#9
Phoebe Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: wild west Posts: 93	Eagleks, that's a great story! I'm having some disagreements with friends who think I should study martial arts. The same group of folks seem to think an over-reliance on firearms is stupid. (These are not antis...and to some extent the point is well taken. The gun is not a magic talisman. I recognize that gun needs to go with training. But there seems to be some other issue the one friend has.) I have yet to find anything that sounds precisely suited to what I think I need.

October 12th, 2009, 01:03 AM	#10
redline4200 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 63	"We shoot bad guys!" This should be the theme of a good class on self defense. That is what it is about, isn't it? I just went through a 5 hour class on Gunfighting in Urban Dwellings. WOW! To quote the old Malt-O-Meal comercial...."It's good stuff Maynard!" YouTube - Malt-O-Meal - "Good Stuff, Maynard!" (Commercial, 1983) Try here: Colorado Shooting Sports • AK Lightning Bolt™ • Firearms • Ammunition • Training • Tactical Gear

October 12th, 2009, 01:30 AM	#11
xSerenityx Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 20	I took Krav Maga and in my class there was pistol stuff. It was also the only martial art that I took that really taught about situational awareness. I had taken other forms of martial arts that were all about the "sensei" and the "kata" and the "honor" and the "way." And I wanted someone to teach me down and dirty stay alive fighting. The first day at Krav Maga I was told "there only rule is: do whatever you have to do to stay alive!" I liked the emphasis on physical fitness, which I thought was important. Then I liked the drills. Everything changed when people were going at real speed, in the dark, or with the strobe light on, and you're getting pounded by pads and you have to find some way out and you're not given a formula to do it. We trained with airsoft guns. We would have to disarm, or to fire before someone disarmed us. We were taught to pick up someone else's weapon if they dropped it. We were taught not how to use the guns, but to use them if they were available and the best tools around. I got hit a lot in Krav Maga. It was good to learn how to take a punch, to stop worrying about getting hit so much and learning to just accept it and get back to fighting and going on the offensive as soon as possible. It was definitely illuminating, trailing with the airsoft guns, because you realize how fast you can get hit if you're not moving and finding cover. Krav Maga was all I had before turning 21. That and pepper spray. Just the other night I was in a dark parking lot. I looked around, looked under my car and in the backseat. Didn't see anything so I started to unlock it. Then I heard someone calling "hey!" and this guy was running across the parking lot at me. I automatically went into my fight stance from Krav Maga-- chin lowered, hands protecting my face but open, knees slightly bent. My open hand almost looked like a signal to stop, and he did, and then said he needed money. I said I didn't have any and he kept asking but I kept saying no. I didn't know if this was the interview process or not but eventually he left me alone. He was coming at me so fast though that it was my instant reaction, to get into that stance and be prepared. There are other times when I've used the fall breaks to help myself automatically. I do highly recommend Krav Maga, but with the right teacher. My first teacher was an ex-Green Beret and my second teacher was the highest ranked woman in the US who had trained in Israel and she had been in some nasty situations. It's not enough to have a trained instructor, I want one who's actually been there and had to live through it. One of the best things Krav Maga taught was-- you got it-- attitude. The "I'm gonna live no matter what" attitude. That when it comes to your life, you don't quit fighting for anything. To use whatever is at your disposal to defend your life, be it a firearm or a brick or your teeth. Kathy (my second teacher) told me that when you're in a real fight, you have to explode into violence, that that is what is going to win. That it ends in seconds, not minutes like the movies. That you have a "go" button and you need to figure out what that is before you get into the situation. I had already decided what those were before I applied for my CFP. Honestly? Crap may happen where you don't get to carry a gun. Maybe it's a campus where they've disarmed you, or a federal building, or maybe it's oversees. It sucks. But it might happen. And having additional skills, even if they're not as effective as a gun, may just be the difference between life or death.

October 12th, 2009, 12:41 PM	#14
kazzaerexys Distinguished Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,525	Phoebe, here's my two cents. It takes years of martial arts...to be able to fight effectively against other trained martial artists. Similarly, no weekend self-defense gun course is going to put you in a league with long-time competitive action shooters. But self-defense is usually more about defeating aggression rather than defeating skill. Oh, yes, there are hardened career criminals who do serious training behind bars or after they get out, and if you end up against one of them you have really gotten a short straw, but meeting up with one of those folks is a low-probability event in the already low-probability world of armed self-defense. If you read most of the "Drew My Gun" or "Close Call Tonight" threads around here, though, you will see that is not how most of these situations usually happen. Particularly if you are somebody who can come across as a 'soft target' (and I would, hopefully without being accused of sexism, figure that most women fall in that category for the average criminal), you may end up in a bad situation precisely because one of the common, garden-variety criminals who isn't ready for a real fight picks you out for an easy score. This is where the previous comments about attitude and relevance come into play, I think. If you can confront an aggressive advance with the attitude that you will not be easy prey, and if you have found a self-defense course that provides you with the relevant skills for a couple of quick and dirty moves to give you time to get away or draw your gun, you will be doing well. If you are thinking about ongoing training in some sort of martial art, you should be able to sit in at the salle/dojo for a few classes to get a feel for the instructor and his students. Ask questions there. That should let you figure out whether the training being offered is the sort of direct, street-effective skills you think you need. If you are looking at signing up for a three or four day seminar type class, there should be plenty of reviews around or even people on this board who have been there, done that. I've taken American Kenpo in the past and found it very easy to take from that some basic fighting moves to teach to women I know who were looking for some intro to self-defense. Everything I have read, heard, or seen about Krav Maga tells me that, with the right instructor, that could be very effective, too. Those would probably be my top two recommendations as far as styles go, but even a RAD class at a community college could be a good start to help you develop the skills for evaluating future training on your own. (Okay, must be inflation---that was more like fifteen cents, I think. ) __________________ “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry SRT, P226, P239 (.40S&W), P2022 (.40S&W); GSR 5", P6.

October 12th, 2009, 09:19 PM	#16
Phoebe Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: wild west Posts: 93	Whoa! I took a Krav Maga class! That which doesn't kill me, will make me stronger (I hope!!!) That was the most killer workout I've ever done in my life. I go to the gym regularly and there is no way that prepared me for KM. The focus is strictly on SD. No rules. They do teach weapons as well as empty hand fof. I'm not sure if they train with airsoft. They have something like blue guns, but didn't see any airsofts. I hope they do that training too. In one class, I believe I can defend myself better than I could before the class. I'm told that in 2-3 months I can take their fight class. My little taste of fighting today, left me wanting to fall down and throw up. (2 minutes of "identify target" and kick or punch...in a 2 on 1 scenario. It was the longest 2 minutes of my life. I thought I was going to die. The KM motto is, "never quit", but I sure wanted to have the teacher tell me that my 30 seconds were good enough.) Seems like a less strength based system would help round things out at a later date. But I'm not super strong, yet felt like I packed a good wallop with both my legs (no surprise there, my legs are strong) and my hands (wow, really?! Yes!) If nothing else, I'm sure my fitness will go through the ceiling. I can probably quit my gym.

October 13th, 2009, 01:25 PM	#18
Phoebe Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: wild west Posts: 93	I feel like I was hit by a truck today. Honestly, I thought I was in decent shape. Crap upper body strength, but I have been lifting weights regularly for 4 months to try to build that up. The whole top of my body hurts! My obliques hurt. From videos I've watched, I can see how KM fits in with pistols. Even if they don't train it, it's a no-brainer. CC + KM = one "don't try to hurt me or you will badly regret it" How long did you train for? I'm looking at making a one year commitment. Did you do full contact fof?

October 13th, 2009, 01:46 PM	#19
1980Maico440 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 80	Sounds like you have hit on one key ingredient required IMO for any course of study- enthusiasm. Physical activity, grappling, fighting etc can definitely improve attitude. Its not something most people are comfortable with, and many people are simply overwhelmed when presented a physical threat. Good for you for following thru with your interest. fwiw- Be careful of falling into the trap of "i brought a martial arts arsenal to a gunfight" syndrome. __________________ I won't stop racing when I get old, I will get old when I stop racing NRA Life, Master Mason, Jack-of-All-Trades (Master of None)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode