What would you look for in a defensive class?

Phoebe · October 11th, 2009, 03:45 PM

I've had most people tell me that martial arts is worthless for SD until years have gone by. (Makes sense. The focus is on form.)

Some people have told me that even SD classes are worthless without years of training.

I was looking at a member's site that does classes that look intriguing. Basically, dirty street fighting, with knives, guns, empty hand, etc. They aren't local and I wouldn't travel that far for class. but it seems like that's the kind of thing I'd want.

I posted some vids from that site and a friend tore them apart, suggesting it was a crud mix of martial arts with some possibly fatal mistakes.

I'm not necessarily buying it.

But it brings up the fact that I have no clue how to evaluate SD offerings.

I've looked at Krav Maga, figuring if it's good enough for the Israeli Army, it's good enough for me. But again, had people nay say it. (And KM doesn't include pistol, afaik.)

Ideally, I'd like to find a place that is 100% focused on SD, rather than "art" or "tradition", and ideally it would include pistol as well as blade and empty hand.

What would you look for if you were female or for a female in your life looking to improve SD skills and SD pistol?

HotGuns · October 11th, 2009, 03:47 PM

Attitude.

Phoebe · October 11th, 2009, 04:33 PM

EVERYBODY has attitude!! That's part of the problem!

HotGuns · October 11th, 2009, 04:42 PM

That is correct.

Finding a teacher with the right one will not be easy.

jdsumner · October 11th, 2009, 04:54 PM

"What would you look for if you were female or for a female in your life looking to improve SD skills and SD pistol?"-Phoebe

I will not attempt to answer this as from strictly a 'female' point of view, because, well, I aint one.
But I will try to answer in what I hope is a useful manor.
Relevance. I'd look for an instructor to teach relevant things. Not how to fast-rope out of a chopper onto a moving speedboat. But someone who can assess my skill, adaptability and weaknesses, and help me work on things that will allow me to detect, avoid, evade, de-escelate, confront, outsmart and overcome an adversary or adversaries. I dont think I'd necessarily look for an instructor who wants to put his name on all his new techniques. Nothing new under the sun. I'd look for someone who is teaching tried and true techniques regardless of who has their name on them.
In order to determine potential instructor's relevance to my situation, I'd make a detailed list of what I perceive my needs are. Then I'd research my list of potential instructors and see who can come closest to bringing that 'package' of info to me. Once I had that list, I'd ask the instructor or school if they may have some contacts who have taken their courses in order to hear first hand accounts of what those people took away from that instructor or school.

I hope this helps.

dan

retsupt99 · October 11th, 2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdsumner

"What would you look for if you were female or for a female in your life looking to improve SD skills and SD pistol?"-Phoebe

I will not attempt to answer this as from strictly a 'female' point of view, because, well, I aint one.
But I will try to answer in what I hope is a useful manor.
Relevance. I'd look for an instructor to teach relevant things. Not how to fast-rope out of a chopper onto a moving speedboat. But someone who can assess my skill, adaptability and weaknesses, and help me work on things that will allow me to detect, avoid, evade, de-escelate, confront, outsmart and overcome an adversary or adversaries. I dont think I'd necessarily look for an instructor who wants to put his name on all his new techniques. Nothing new under the sun. I'd look for someone who is teaching tried and true techniques regardless of who has their name on them.
In order to determine potential instructor's relevance to my situation, I'd make a detailed list of what I perceive my needs are. Then I'd research my list of potential instructors and see who can come closest to bringing that 'package' of info to me. Once I had that list, I'd ask the instructor or school if they may have some contacts who have taken their courses in order to hear first hand accounts of what those people took away from that instructor or school.

I hope this helps.

dan

What a great explanation...and Relevance is the 'key'.

Eagleks · October 11th, 2009, 10:15 PM

I was in martial arts... not the tournament oriented martial arts that is present today. We did learn weapons, etc. I don't know if you can find good training like we got anymore... without serious searching.

However, I taught my daughter several things when she was young that were solely to 'protect' or ward off an aggressor, and to take them down or out in a hurry. It must have worked.... she's 5'2" tall, and the guy who tried to grab her (6'1" tall & a long rap sheet for rape) got his rear kicked. When the police talked to me, they couldn't stop laughing, because the guy was rather messed up and bloody on the ground.... and he refused to get up .... he was afraid she'll get him again.

The other thing you need is the "mentality and willingess" to do whatever it is you need to in order to protect yourself, including hurting and/or maiming them if needed.

It takes finding the 'right' person with the knowledge, who's willing to teach you just those type of things...... they often do not like to do that. Some of the classes I've seen, were a joke. Here's how to flip a person attacking you. Ok, well that helps, but it isn't going to stop them from getting up either... so you have to know the rest too.

fm2 · October 11th, 2009, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoebe

I've had most people tell me that martial arts is worthless for SD until years have gone by. (Makes sense. The focus is on form.)

That's because the context and focus is different. That's not to say that some attributes don't transfer. There is going to be some physicallity involved in a good SD program that's lacking in some martial arts.

Phoebe · October 12th, 2009, 12:54 AM

Eagleks, that's a great story!

I'm having some disagreements with friends who think I should study martial arts. The same group of folks seem to think an over-reliance on firearms is stupid. (These are not antis...and to some extent the point is well taken. The gun is not a magic talisman. I recognize that gun needs to go with training. But there seems to be some other issue the one friend has.)

I have yet to find anything that sounds precisely suited to what I think I need.

redline4200 · October 12th, 2009, 01:03 AM

"We shoot bad guys!"

This should be the theme of a good class on self defense. That is what it is about, isn't it? I just went through a 5 hour class on Gunfighting in Urban Dwellings. WOW! To quote the old Malt-O-Meal comercial...."It's good stuff Maynard!" YouTube - Malt-O-Meal - "Good Stuff, Maynard!" (Commercial, 1983)

Try here: Colorado Shooting Sports • AK Lightning Bolt™ • Firearms • Ammunition • Training • Tactical Gear

October 11th, 2009, 03:45 PM	#1
Phoebe Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: wild west Posts: 86	What would you look for in a defensive class? I've had most people tell me that martial arts is worthless for SD until years have gone by. (Makes sense. The focus is on form.) Some people have told me that even SD classes are worthless without years of training. I was looking at a member's site that does classes that look intriguing. Basically, dirty street fighting, with knives, guns, empty hand, etc. They aren't local and I wouldn't travel that far for class. but it seems like that's the kind of thing I'd want. I posted some vids from that site and a friend tore them apart, suggesting it was a crud mix of martial arts with some possibly fatal mistakes. I'm not necessarily buying it. But it brings up the fact that I have no clue how to evaluate SD offerings. I've looked at Krav Maga, figuring if it's good enough for the Israeli Army, it's good enough for me. But again, had people nay say it. (And KM doesn't include pistol, afaik.) Ideally, I'd like to find a place that is 100% focused on SD, rather than "art" or "tradition", and ideally it would include pistol as well as blade and empty hand. What would you look for if you were female or for a female in your life looking to improve SD skills and SD pistol?

October 11th, 2009, 03:47 PM	#2
HotGuns Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 7,582	Attitude. __________________ AR. CHL Instr. To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. Thomas Jefferson

October 11th, 2009, 04:42 PM	#4
HotGuns Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 7,582	That is correct. Finding a teacher with the right one will not be easy. __________________ AR. CHL Instr. To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. Thomas Jefferson

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October 11th, 2009, 04:33 PM	#3
Phoebe Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: wild west Posts: 86	EVERYBODY has attitude!! That's part of the problem!

October 11th, 2009, 04:54 PM	#5
jdsumner Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: riverview, fl Posts: 484	"What would you look for if you were female or for a female in your life looking to improve SD skills and SD pistol?"-Phoebe I will not attempt to answer this as from strictly a 'female' point of view, because, well, I aint one. But I will try to answer in what I hope is a useful manor. Relevance. I'd look for an instructor to teach relevant things. Not how to fast-rope out of a chopper onto a moving speedboat. But someone who can assess my skill, adaptability and weaknesses, and help me work on things that will allow me to detect, avoid, evade, de-escelate, confront, outsmart and overcome an adversary or adversaries. I dont think I'd necessarily look for an instructor who wants to put his name on all his new techniques. Nothing new under the sun. I'd look for someone who is teaching tried and true techniques regardless of who has their name on them. In order to determine potential instructor's relevance to my situation, I'd make a detailed list of what I perceive my needs are. Then I'd research my list of potential instructors and see who can come closest to bringing that 'package' of info to me. Once I had that list, I'd ask the instructor or school if they may have some contacts who have taken their courses in order to hear first hand accounts of what those people took away from that instructor or school. I hope this helps. dan

October 11th, 2009, 10:15 PM	#7
Eagleks Distinguished Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 1,740	I was in martial arts... not the tournament oriented martial arts that is present today. We did learn weapons, etc. I don't know if you can find good training like we got anymore... without serious searching. However, I taught my daughter several things when she was young that were solely to 'protect' or ward off an aggressor, and to take them down or out in a hurry. It must have worked.... she's 5'2" tall, and the guy who tried to grab her (6'1" tall & a long rap sheet for rape) got his rear kicked. When the police talked to me, they couldn't stop laughing, because the guy was rather messed up and bloody on the ground.... and he refused to get up .... he was afraid she'll get him again. The other thing you need is the "mentality and willingess" to do whatever it is you need to in order to protect yourself, including hurting and/or maiming them if needed. It takes finding the 'right' person with the knowledge, who's willing to teach you just those type of things...... they often do not like to do that. Some of the classes I've seen, were a joke. Here's how to flip a person attacking you. Ok, well that helps, but it isn't going to stop them from getting up either... so you have to know the rest too.

October 12th, 2009, 12:54 AM	#9
Phoebe Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: wild west Posts: 86	Eagleks, that's a great story! I'm having some disagreements with friends who think I should study martial arts. The same group of folks seem to think an over-reliance on firearms is stupid. (These are not antis...and to some extent the point is well taken. The gun is not a magic talisman. I recognize that gun needs to go with training. But there seems to be some other issue the one friend has.) I have yet to find anything that sounds precisely suited to what I think I need.

October 12th, 2009, 01:03 AM	#10
redline4200 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 50	"We shoot bad guys!" This should be the theme of a good class on self defense. That is what it is about, isn't it? I just went through a 5 hour class on Gunfighting in Urban Dwellings. WOW! To quote the old Malt-O-Meal comercial...."It's good stuff Maynard!" YouTube - Malt-O-Meal - "Good Stuff, Maynard!" (Commercial, 1983) Try here: Colorado Shooting Sports • AK Lightning Bolt™ • Firearms • Ammunition • Training • Tactical Gear