mercop

Many of us have done thousands and thousands of presentations from the holster during dry fire and live fire. Often when we do we are flat footed and don't have to move until we have the gun presented at the target. Here are some stills of what it looks like when you need to move as you draw. So much for economy of motion. Both of these guys are experienced shooters, the bottom like is that under during dynamic movement all body angles change and so will your draw. Both shooters are drawing in response to a visual stimuli. The second shooter first had to panic push the target that is laying down before engaging the second target.

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2010 MCS Calander
http://docs.google.com/View?id=dgb7wjh3_299f8tncbcz

orangevol

The guy in the 2nd photo looks like he's going to fall down before he gets his gun drawn.

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Pistology

Pictures lie. If the force of gravity and movement of the subject in the 2nd photo is in line with his center line that is connected to his base, then he has what Gabe Suarez calls the necessary elements of stance: balance, movement and stability.

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We do not celebrate the death of our enemies. - Yitzhak Rabin

Ram Rod

I'm betting the second shooter pushed the static target with his left hand instead of using his right hand........anticipating his right hand draw on the live target. That's why I think he's out of balance and position and not recovering quick enough.

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BikerRN

Pictures don't tell the whole story, and only capture a split second moment in time of the situation.

Biker

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If I knew I was going to get in to a gunfight I most ceratinly wouln't bring a handgun or two, and I don't know any smart person that does.

Pistology

I agree that he probably pushed with his left only because it's his natural lead and the direction of movement, and his gun is on his right side where it's better to have the right hand available for retention.
However, he next employs a two-handed draw that occupies both hands simultaneously: the left hand is raising the cover garmet and the right is on the grip. There's no panic push with one and favoring the other by holding it in reserve.
He's moving from a fist fight to a gun fight. He must've slapped that target down pretty fast for it to be flat on the ground. And he is moving aggressively to the 11 o'clock of the next target and probably scored some good hits on it.
I guess he's about right but maybe there is a faster way to get from A to B with practice of smooth motion.

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We do not celebrate the death of our enemies. - Yitzhak Rabin

unloved

I can't say for sure, as I wasn't there, but I expect he used both hands.
That's what George teaches. A good solid shove to at least rock 'em back on their heels and give you a little time to work.

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...he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe are the laws of nature. - George Bernard Shaw (paraphrased)

mercop

He used both hands, that is how I teach the Panic Push. The idea is that hopefully the guy is not far from a vertical surface and this if done correctly may end the confrontation. You use the heel of both hands up under the numbers as you would in football. With force this causes the head to snap back and the eyes to close, when the eyes close they take a snap shot of the last image they saw, when you open them again they focus to the front so the idea is not to be there anymore. The arms go out to the side in an attempt to regain balance and you get put back on your heels. During classes we usually have someone stand behind the guy being pushed or he will fall or smash into something. Most people don't need to have this done to them more than once at combat speed to have faith in it.

When I came on the job they still taught that BS about striking with your weak hand as you drew and fired. So during a life and death situation you are going to not only use one hand, but you your weak hand to strike at your attacker likely only striking his hand. This was obviously instituted by gun guys who had no understanding of combatives. Go get some buddies and try the panic push, tell me what you think?- George

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2010 MCS Calander
http://docs.google.com/View?id=dgb7wjh3_299f8tncbcz

mercop

Here is a little video of the tough guy defense, you can kinda get the jist.

__________________
2010 MCS Calander
http://docs.google.com/View?id=dgb7wjh3_299f8tncbcz

jdsumner

"When I came on the job they still taught that BS about striking with your weak hand as you drew and fired. So during a life and death situation you are going to not only use one hand, but you your weak hand to strike at your attacker likely only striking his hand. This was obviously instituted by gun guys who had no understanding of combatives."-mercop

If the actions you are describing match the criteria for the Taylor Speedrock, I'd venture to say this guy has more understanding of combatives than a lot of people. ChuckTaylorOptions.gif
For it to have been taught for so long, it would have had to have some success.

That being said, everything that becomes successful evolves.
Other instructors teach driving the elbow into the face, ducking and driving into the opponent, drawing to retention and firing.
There is a number of different close quarters options available in the chest to chest situation.
One thing I've learned from a number of instructors well trained in combatives is that: If you give someone a lever (ie, extending your hands/arms foreward out to your opponent) they may use it. As an example, in one of Randy Cain's classes, I stood chest to chest and attempted to Speedrock him. Once face down in the soggy Lakeland mud, I realized this MAY not be the answere. Keeping my draw the same, (non dom hand stays tight against abs) and stepping off the x while firing from retention without extending any levers to my opponent gave my attacker less 'handles and lever's' to take advantage of.
Many different responses to many a changing situation.

Mercop,
please don't read my post as anything but respectful to you and the services you provide. I've learned in the past few days how easily the written word can be misunderstood or misleading in its prose. I do appreciate what you are teaching: an evolution of success responses.
Just thought I'd add a little of what I've learned in an effort to add to the knowledge base of the forum.

dan