PDTV Episode (11/02/09) -- Good or Bad Techniques???

SnubMan · November 3rd, 2009, 01:21 AM

PDTV Episode (11/02/09) -- Good or Bad Techniques???

If you caught PDTV (Personal Defense Television -- Sportsman Channel) one of the instructors Tiger Mckee demonstrated two different techniques that I had not seen before. Let me know what you think of these techniques…

*** I'll do my best to describe the setup -- hopefully you caught some of the episode during the game last night.

1. Sidearm as an Impact Weapon---

Mckee (the instructor) used the muzzle of his sidearm to jab an assailant in the chest when his gun malfunctioned. In doing so he had to step forward towards the threat and stay online with the target. Is this a good response??? I believe that creating distance while simultaneously fixing the malfunction and then firing would be better. I don’t like the idea of getting closer to the threat to give him an opportunity to take my gun/injure me with whatever weapon that he has.

2. Weapon Retention Situation--

An assailant grabbed the instructor's drawn handgun with both hands (weapon was pointed at the assailant). The instructor did a move which I have seen before and to me does make sense (simply pulling the sidearm straight backwards away from the threat -- rather simple) IF that didn’t work he then laid back down on the ground and used his legs to kick the assailant to free the handgun from the attacker’s grip.

*** To me this seemed really dumb -- intentionally getting on the ground never seems like a good idea.

**** Lethal Force Question****
-- In the second situation -- when you are having to fight for control of your firearm it seems pretty clear that the assailant could very well take your weapon and kill you with it so.... couldn't you just shoot them in this situation -- to me this makes the most sense as it would be quick/effective. ---- The way I see it in a struggle for control of your handgun all the elements needed to use deadly force are present.

Let me know what you think. I haven't seen this show in a while and trying to figure out if its even worth watching... As always I appreciate all the input from everybody on DC Forum. Thanks everybody.

ProShooter · November 3rd, 2009, 07:02 AM

I dont like either scenario...

When I was at Blackwater, I was taught a technique during a CQB class that involved popping someone in the forehead with the muzzle of your handgun....DUMB!

Secondly, I saw something on PDTV where the instructor was touting the wonders of laser sights and he said something about "if you can't see the assailant, you can hide behind something and guide the laser light onto them so that you can get a shot off"....something like that.

If you can't see your attacker, you should be running! Not shooting! IMO, lasers have no place on a defensive handgun. They were designed solely for training. As of yet, I havent seen another episode of that show but what I saw didnt impress me.

threefeathers · November 3rd, 2009, 02:46 PM

Jim Lyndell developed the most effective gun retention and disarming techniques that exist. Mas Ayoob and Marty Hays teach them intensively at LFI II and III. I wasn't impressed with what I saw and when I see Rob Pincus in June I may ask him about them.

john452 · November 6th, 2009, 06:56 PM

I have been a student of Tigers' for awhile and he puts much thought and work into his teaching. Do not concern yourself as his teachings have great foundations and he would never recommend anything that doesn't work well. thanks...John

Hopyard · November 6th, 2009, 08:37 PM

"IF that didn’t work he then laid back down on the ground"

I'm too old to voluntarily lay down on the ground. That will come soon enough anyhow.

SIXTO · November 7th, 2009, 01:31 PM

You guys are forgetting that these are simply tools to have in your "toolbox". There is no definitive technique to self defense as every situation is unique, so the response must be as well.

As for the show, it is nothing more than a commercial designed to sell whatever gadget is paying the bills that week.

varob · November 7th, 2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIXTO

You guys are forgetting that these are simply tools to have in your "toolbox". There is no definitive technique to self defense as every situation is unique, so the response must be as well.

As for the show, it is nothing more than a commercial designed to sell whatever gadget is paying the bills that week.

Yep, just a 30 minute infomercial for the product of the week.

But, I do watch each and every one of them every week.

QKShooter · November 7th, 2009, 02:16 PM

Well, if you have a firearm 'malf" and opt to do SOMETHING LIKE a "face smash" with your firearm muzzle against an actual attacker - it absolutely NEEDS to be a violently eruptive, explosive & lightning~fast blow and that is nearly impossible to "simulate" in any TV type demonstration where you would need to exercise restraint AKA move slower and pull back in order to make certain that you do not cause any permanent physical injury to a training or demonstration partner.
In order to do it right you need to do it for real.

QKShooter · November 7th, 2009, 02:24 PM

That is not a true statement though it did make for a really good 2 second sound-bite on your part.

"As for the show, it is nothing more than a commercial designed to sell whatever gadget is paying the bills that week."

SIXTO · November 7th, 2009, 03:35 PM

How is it not true?

Each week the featured guests just happen to be using whatever brand equipment bought the commercials that week?

And it is a nice little bit of SIXTO, isnt it.

November 3rd, 2009, 01:21 AM	#1
SnubMan Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: PA Posts: 152	PDTV Episode (11/02/09) -- Good or Bad Techniques??? PDTV Episode (11/02/09) -- Good or Bad Techniques??? If you caught PDTV (Personal Defense Television -- Sportsman Channel) one of the instructors Tiger Mckee demonstrated two different techniques that I had not seen before. Let me know what you think of these techniques… * I'll do my best to describe the setup -- hopefully you caught some of the episode during the game last night. 1. Sidearm as an Impact Weapon--- Mckee (the instructor) used the muzzle of his sidearm to jab an assailant in the chest when his gun malfunctioned. In doing so he had to step forward towards the threat and stay online with the target. Is this a good response??? I believe that creating distance while simultaneously fixing the malfunction and then firing would be better. I don’t like the idea of getting closer to the threat to give him an opportunity to take my gun/injure me with whatever weapon that he has. 2. Weapon Retention Situation-- An assailant grabbed the instructor's drawn handgun with both hands (weapon was pointed at the assailant). The instructor did a move which I have seen before and to me does make sense (simply pulling the sidearm straight backwards away from the threat -- rather simple) IF that didn’t work he then laid back down on the ground and used his legs to kick the assailant to free the handgun from the attacker’s grip. * To me this seemed really dumb -- intentionally getting on the ground never seems like a good idea. ** Lethal Force Question** -- In the second situation -- when you are having to fight for control of your firearm it seems pretty clear that the assailant could very well take your weapon and kill you with it so.... couldn't you just shoot them in this situation -- to me this makes the most sense as it would be quick/effective. ---- The way I see it in a struggle for control of your handgun all the elements needed to use deadly force are present. Let me know what you think. I haven't seen this show in a while and trying to figure out if its even worth watching... As always I appreciate all the input from everybody on DC Forum. Thanks everybody.

November 3rd, 2009, 07:02 AM	#2
ProShooter Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Richmond, Va Posts: 37	I dont like either scenario... When I was at Blackwater, I was taught a technique during a CQB class that involved popping someone in the forehead with the muzzle of your handgun....DUMB! Secondly, I saw something on PDTV where the instructor was touting the wonders of laser sights and he said something about "if you can't see the assailant, you can hide behind something and guide the laser light onto them so that you can get a shot off"....something like that. If you can't see your attacker, you should be running! Not shooting! IMO, lasers have no place on a defensive handgun. They were designed solely for training. As of yet, I havent seen another episode of that show but what I saw didnt impress me. __________________ www.ProactiveShooters.com

November 6th, 2009, 06:56 PM	#4
john452 New Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 8	technique I have been a student of Tigers' for awhile and he puts much thought and work into his teaching. Do not concern yourself as his teachings have great foundations and he would never recommend anything that doesn't work well. thanks...John

November 7th, 2009, 01:31 PM	#6
SIXTO VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 12,236	You guys are forgetting that these are simply tools to have in your "toolbox". There is no definitive technique to self defense as every situation is unique, so the response must be as well. As for the show, it is nothing more than a commercial designed to sell whatever gadget is paying the bills that week. __________________ _________________ \|^^^^^^^^^^^^^\| \|___ \| SIXTO EXPRESS---\| \|\|'\|";,__. \|_..._...___________\| \|\|_\|_\|...,] "(@)'(@)""""\|(@)(@)*****(@)

November 7th, 2009, 03:35 PM	#10
SIXTO VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 12,236	How is it not true? Each week the featured guests just happen to be using whatever brand equipment bought the commercials that week? And it is a nice little bit of SIXTO, isnt it. __________________ _________________ \|^^^^^^^^^^^^^\| \|___ \| SIXTO EXPRESS---\| \|\|'\|";,__. \|_..._...___________\| \|\|_\|_\|...,] "(@)'(@)""""\|(@)(@)*****(@)

November 3rd, 2009, 02:46 PM	#3
threefeathers Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 517	Jim Lyndell developed the most effective gun retention and disarming techniques that exist. Mas Ayoob and Marty Hays teach them intensively at LFI II and III. I wasn't impressed with what I saw and when I see Rob Pincus in June I may ask him about them.

November 6th, 2009, 08:37 PM	#5
Hopyard VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: College Station Posts: 2,834	"IF that didn’t work he then laid back down on the ground" I'm too old to voluntarily lay down on the ground. That will come soon enough anyhow.

November 7th, 2009, 02:16 PM	#8
QKShooter Assistant Administrator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Off Of The X Posts: 23,473	Well, if you have a firearm 'malf" and opt to do SOMETHING LIKE a "face smash" with your firearm muzzle against an actual attacker - it absolutely NEEDS to be a violently eruptive, explosive & lightning~fast blow and that is nearly impossible to "simulate" in any TV type demonstration where you would need to exercise restraint AKA move slower and pull back in order to make certain that you do not cause any permanent physical injury to a training or demonstration partner. In order to do it right you need to do it for real.

November 7th, 2009, 02:24 PM	#9
QKShooter Assistant Administrator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Off Of The X Posts: 23,473	That is not a true statement though it did make for a really good 2 second sound-bite on your part. "As for the show, it is nothing more than a commercial designed to sell whatever gadget is paying the bills that week."

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode