rocky

on another note, mace or pepper spray is considered non leathel force , where a knife could be considered a leathel force insurment. Bottom line, proper training and reaction should be your biggest concern. also , not just talking, but training to react is very important.

KenpoTex

Rob72, excellent post, I agree with you for the most part. I'm going to pick it apart a little because there are a few points I'd like to discuss individually.
Agreed, to a point, I'm a big fan of "shampoo self-defense" (lather, rinse, repeat as necessary ). However "a couple dozen fast stabs" in my mind is still going to take too long. My idea would be more along the lines of: "stab/slash him until he lets go (probably only 2-3 times but maybe more, who knows?) and as soon as he lets go, RUN. Just my 2-cents.

Agreed, for real self-defense, most MA systems are lacking. I freely admitt this even though I study and teach a somewhat "traditional" system (American Kenpo). However, in the "street" self-defense class I teach (and in my own training) I integrate a lot of "dirty fighting" courtesy of WWII combatives (Applegate, Fairbairn, Styers, etc.) and weapons work. The difference, once again, is often in the mindset. Martial-arts usually have somewhat of a competitive or "mutual combat" mindset. Combatives and "reality based" self-defense programs tend to focus on survival and escape at any cost.
Agreed, I touched on this a little but you stated it more clearly.

If someone is taking you somewhere, it's because whatever they have in mind can't be done wherever you are currently located (crime-scene A). Most people who comply and allow themselves to be taken to a different location (crime-scene B) end up on the news weeks later when their body is finally found. In other words, do whatever it takes to NOT get taken away.


You are right on with this point. Once again, this goes to mindset. This is where people need to determine for themselves exactly what their "trigger" is. "What would it take for me to come unglued?" You used the term "Beast," it could also be called "killer-instinct," or "righteous indignation," or whatever catch phrase you like. Regardless, the idea is the same. This ties in to your point about being conditioned to "draw-n-stick." Unless you are mentally "ready to rock" you're probably going to freeze when the crisis takes place. Or as the quote from The Hunted states: "Once you are able to kill mentally, the physical part is easy."

Once again, good post. I enjoy the discussion and look forward to seeing your further thoughts.

__________________
"Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

Matt K.

Rob72

Thanks! & I agree with you as well. I said "a couple dozen...", since that can (and very probably would ) be done in extremis. People get shot 4-5 times from a 13 rnd magazine because both individuals are moving, and the weapon requires indexing. Grappling/shivving is face-to-face- if you can slap them, you can stick them. It's not at all uncommon for a stabbing victim to have received 30-100 penetrations. If the attacker dosen't realize his "victim" has a blade, he may well be stuck several times before he realizes it. Even when realizing that you are "being stuck", the urge not to turn your back can be overpowering, and so the grapple continues, since the "attacker" won't flee, and the "victim" is now on the offensive. Hell'uv an incentive not to get into a knife fight!

I assume that many folks here are acquainted with "SouthNarc", and Trace Rinaldi. If you haven't seen these, check out these videos (the site offers a couple of play options): http://www.shivworks.com/products.asp My next "toy" is going to be a Disciple............or maybe one of the re-released Halo III's.......decisions, decisions! The video looks like "fancy" work, if you aren't familiar with reverse edge weapons- in fact, it's very instinctive. Interesting combo of non-lethal/lethal strikes, immediately available.

DM

Sorry , folks forgot to check back on this one.My boy has done a lot of training with my dad, a 1st dan in Shotokan. So as far as "basic" self-defense he's pretty well covered and kids of his own size aren't really a concern.My cousin spent a day with him when he was home on leave and showed him knife-fighting techniques that he learned in his training for the US Border Patrol and in the military ( more training than you'd think). So he at least has a basic understanding of that.My main thought here is that being armed with a Knife is better than not being armed at all. Unfortunately ,in todays world , most children who are abducted don't make it back home alive.So , even though a knife may be used against him , I think his chances if surviving an attempted abduction would be greater by having that knife.

KenpoTex

Good points, and like I said: lather, rinse, repeat. If the guy doesn't desist, keep doing the "sewing-machine" on him.
Oh yeah, SouthNarc is the man. I've got Reverse Edge Methods Vol. I and am eagerly awaiting the release of Vol. II. In case you didn't know, SouthNarc is a moderator at a forum called Total Protection Interactive , it's cool to be able to talk to the guy on the video to discuss the techniques. There's several other "big names" that post to that forum as well.
Sounds like he's got a pretty decent foundation to build on. Keep it up. :)

Definately. Like I said before, it's great to see a parent that will take an active part in making sure their kid has what it takes to stay safe.

__________________
"Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

Matt K.

Rob72

Damn. Somewhere else to sign up.

standles

Ok in light of the posts I am going to probably get slammed as being to simple minded but here goes.

While I agree that teaching a child to defend themselves is almost mandatory today, I have to ask.... Your original question centered around a 13 year old child going to a friends, mall, out of town sporting and you being concerned enough about his safety to insist he carry some protection.

If your that concerned about his safety then why not accompany him to the out of town events (if you don't trust the other parents going), not allow him unsupervised in the mall, or have him change his friends. I am only asking not condeming or telling you how to raise your child etc. etc.

I face the same with a teenage daughter. I she has attended training and she shoots compeition with me regularly, but I still do not let her run free at the mall, roam around town with friends bored looking for something to do etc. etc. Even if it is going to a friends house I insist on having met the other parents first and knowing something of thier background. I just recently ended her "friendship" with another girl that became less than desireable. Maybe I am just a control freak.

Oh well just curious.

Steven

Lawrence Keeney

I would counsel the lad, that if he carries a knife, he should tell no one about it, and most certainly advertise the fact that he's carrying by playing with it in public.

It should be 100% covert if at all possible.

KevinInstructor

As already mentioned, an impact weapon is a much better selection over a folder. I teach Kubaton and both of my teenagers both carry min-mag flashlights which double as Kubatons. Nobody thinks twice about a kid with a flashlight and when used correctly will complete the task at hand most of the time (there is always times when running is much better).

Sad to say that people today do not accept a child carrying a knife as when we were childern (I am 49).

__________________
Stay Safe,
Kevin

CSSDSD Instructor
ACCJT Certified LEO DT Instructor
NRA Instructor