Unarmed Combat and Martial Arts - Page 2

Ram Rod · July 6th, 2009, 08:27 PM

A bit of Karate (taught in USA), some Judo, Tae Kwon Do, ninpo and kick boxing while in Okinawa. CQB with the US Marines. I just don't move like I used to in my twenties, so I'll take shortcuts if I have to.

Monkeytown · July 6th, 2009, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by United93

Monkeytown: "I also carry myself in such a manner as to not draw a lot of attention from trouble makers (i.e. I am not a loud mouth, braggard, smart a$$, etc.)."

Good strategy, IMO.

mjmoore: "armed combat is much better than unarmed"

Well, it kind of depends on the situation, but I definitely think that if lethal force is warranted, it is foolish to use UC if weapons are available.

Thanks, I like to think that I am well versed in the art of "Shut the @#$%& up!" haha

trob09 · July 6th, 2009, 08:50 PM

Tae Kwon Do - started training when I was 14 or so and continued through HS graduation. Earned 2nd degree Black Belt. I chose Tae Kwon Do because that is all there was in my tiny little town.

Trained for several years with no particular goals or focus in 5-animal Kung fu, Hapkido and Aikido. Tried each of them for various reasons but never felt like any of them were 'right' for me.

in '92 or so started training in Bujinkan Dojo Ninpo Taijutsu and never looked back. Taught it for a little while but I dislike the teaching side of it. It relies on the refinement of natural body actions/reactions, works in the 'real world', uses fundamentally the same techniques for armed/unarmed action (the weapon is an extension of the body) and has what I would consider an appropriate balance of spiritual/physical emphasis. I think if you're going to teach a student how to beat the crap out of someone, it's sensible to help guide them down the path of why that might not be such a great idea unless you really, really have to do so. Similarly I have little use for highly-stylized but real-world-ineffective techniques and heavy emphasis on the spiritual development.

The most important thing it taught me (and still teaches me) is that it's better to avoid a confrontation all together than it is to win one....but if you get into one, do what you need to do to get home safely. There are no rules in a street fight.

ExSoldier · July 6th, 2009, 10:13 PM

I have dabbled in Aikido for several years, less recently. I got into it because it was simply the most beautiful flowing interaction of sheer kinetic energy AND it doesn't take any strength. No punches or kicks. Purely defensive. You can't grab somebody and perform an Aikido technique it simply won't work. But if somebody or more than one somebody tries to grab YOU, watch out!

I have used the art as a teacher in an inner city high school more than once and it has always worked even though I never rose above a white belt. In Aikido there are NO belts except white and black. There are senior students that are exemplified by the Black HAKAMA ceremonial pants worn. They look so large and flowing they appear to be a floor length skirt. They can be a pain to maneuver in but supposedly they teach to never let one's feet move from the ground lest you become entangled in the garment and fall. Teaches you to slide your feet instead of lifting one foot at anytime where you are automatically off balance. The garment teaches "center" and "balance" very well. MY particular Dojo was superb in that they will allow a person who might have a hard time with slamming one's older body on the mats to "walk out of" a technique instead of forcefully meeting the mat. For me, in my post surgical condition that's going to be crucial since I intend to go back and finish my studies until I earn a black belt. I'll have lost the weight and I'll have my health back and I'll have the time. By way of reference: Steven Seagal is a 7th dan Aikido Master. His movies are not pure Aikido, except the first one, ABOVE THE LAW. That was pretty much the real deal. Now he does a lot of punches and kicking too, so he's gone into other styles. But for my purposes, Aikido is perfect. I have done Tang Soo Do Karate and classic Jujuitsu, but I find Aikido is so natural and ... well, healthy for my body, emotions and soul that there is nothing else I'd like to explore.

If you like, I can discuss the few times I have used the art in a real defensive manner but it was no big deal, not a protracted "fight," just a student getting blustery and full of himself after getting disciplined in class for being a jerk. Usually they come up and get real REAL close (folks thinks this is intimidating but one who practices Aikido loves it) and they sneer and say in a menacing growl: "What chooo gonna do now MISTER white expletive deleted." Then after I clearly warn and ask them NOT to touch me they try a shove or even better grab my shirt with a fist, prepping for a strike. It's usually all over in a second. Them on the ground screaming in the arm lock/wrist lock or finger technique I'd responded with.

Word travels extremely fast in a high school. One or two encounters like that and everybody calms down and gets real respectful. Especially after I circulate my old military photo album. Once in awhile I've helped the special ed teachers handle an enraged autistic child out of control.

When I changed schools once mid year (deeper into the inner city) my kids at the first school all called their buddies at the next school and told them: You got an awesome teacher inbound. But don't mess with him, or he'll KILL YOU DEAD. 'Nuff said. In all my 15 years between those two schools I've never been touched beyond those few "tries." The ROTC sergeant also commented it had something to do with my 14 years as an army officer. Called it "command bearing" and there is some truth to that as well.

ExSoldier · July 6th, 2009, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paco

Not that it matters in a fight, but I am glad my instructors are the same. They don't teach the Korean aspect and religious foundations of TKD. In fact they are messianic Christians, so we know more of Jewish traditions from them then anything Asian.

Isn't KRAV MAGNA (sp?) an Israeli art? What they teach their special ops guys (and gals) as well as MOSSAD?

wings816 · July 6th, 2009, 10:44 PM

I started Uechi-Ryu Karate a few months ago. Great dojo, the director of training has done a lot of consulting for police agencies and such. Everyone is very friendly and also takes training seriously.
The approach is traditional with kata and lots of technical work balanced out by sparring and consideration to what happens when the SHTF and technique can go out the window.
I like the style because it's close in and a "hard" style with strikes.
I would like to balance it out with jiu-jitsu after I get a good foundation in what I've chosen to be my core style.

United93 · July 6th, 2009, 10:48 PM

ExSoldier - Krav Maga is an Israeli martial art.

mercop · July 6th, 2009, 11:41 PM

Yoshin Ryu Ju Jitsu, Judo and ghetto experience along with being exposed to just about everything. Now I concentrate on what is the same instead of the differences and considering the application.- George

ExSoldier · July 6th, 2009, 11:52 PM

I have also come to understand that the perfect weapon in personal combat is whatever I'm holding in my hand at the moment. In school, for the very few times I had a concern about a potential threat after school, I always walked (actually: strolled as if I hadn't a care in the world while maintaining condition orange) I did so with a rolled section of the Miami Herald's local section under my arm. Sensei showed us a way to make that into an extremely efficient kubotan type instrument. It works!

psychophipps · July 7th, 2009, 12:34 AM

Chinese Kempo Karate (basically Kajukenbo) was my first style and it was all about eye gouging, groin crushing, knee stomping, and general street tough mayhem. Learned some good stuff (best lessons were how to turn on my inner animal) but it didn't take me long to realize that my first response to an attack being to tear a random soft tissue part loose will get my teenage butt in a sling right-quick.
My second was art was Takahashi-Ryu Karate Do (Goju Ryu) and I learned some good stuff there as well. While my Kajukembo instructor was fond of disrespecting "that traditional garbage", I learned that newer it seems, the older it tends to be if you really look. Only so many ways to efficiently hurt people with your body and mankind has been at it for quite a while, after all.
Third, and best IMO, was Small Circle Jujitsu. This sensei was strictly street defense application of techniques that you are comfortable with. Yes, you had to know your locks, throws, etc but he wanted you to make the best martial art to meet your own needs, body type, and personality. I was the big guy with the long limbs that made a good uke because I grunt a lot when I get hit or flung around. Open workouts on Saturdays from 10-2 bought in a huge gamut of different styles so we picked and chose from about everything out there because we had some of the best mats in town.
During this time I was also doing the Brazilian Jujitsu/MMA stuff on the side with my buddy and training with his mom who was a 20 year student and multi-art black belt in various Filipino styles. I also worked out with a Wun Hop Kun Do guy from work who studied directly under Prof Dacascos pretty regularly. At this point I was basically working as a server and hitting the mats 5-6 times a week for at least 1-2 hours on top of my daily workouts at home.
Did some more Kempo for a bit at a McDojo in Wisconsin and worked out with some Capoeira people while I was there.
More Small Circle Jujitsu before moving to start my business.
Kajukenbo again for a while. Emperado system with some Prof Buell tossed in to even things out. Very hard-hitting and capital "B" Brutal. Spent a lot of time with some truly glorious bruises and generally had a blast.
Started on working my bits and pieces around with a good friend to finally distill my stuff into what I'm really looking for. Learned why I chose the stuff I chose and dug back into the ol' B box to make sure I wasn't missing any hidden gold.
More Kempo with a different instructor. Some goodies but way too much (and many) forms and random esoteric weapons.

July 6th, 2009, 08:27 PM	#11
Ram Rod VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: crawford county, arkansas Posts: 8,817	A bit of Karate (taught in USA), some Judo, Tae Kwon Do, ninpo and kick boxing while in Okinawa. CQB with the US Marines. I just don't move like I used to in my twenties, so I'll take shortcuts if I have to. __________________ RamRod-----sans remords live, eat, breathe, sleep Glock

July 6th, 2009, 08:50 PM	#13
trob09 Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Minnesota Posts: 41	Tae Kwon Do - started training when I was 14 or so and continued through HS graduation. Earned 2nd degree Black Belt. I chose Tae Kwon Do because that is all there was in my tiny little town. Trained for several years with no particular goals or focus in 5-animal Kung fu, Hapkido and Aikido. Tried each of them for various reasons but never felt like any of them were 'right' for me. in '92 or so started training in Bujinkan Dojo Ninpo Taijutsu and never looked back. Taught it for a little while but I dislike the teaching side of it. It relies on the refinement of natural body actions/reactions, works in the 'real world', uses fundamentally the same techniques for armed/unarmed action (the weapon is an extension of the body) and has what I would consider an appropriate balance of spiritual/physical emphasis. I think if you're going to teach a student how to beat the crap out of someone, it's sensible to help guide them down the path of why that might not be such a great idea unless you really, really have to do so. Similarly I have little use for highly-stylized but real-world-ineffective techniques and heavy emphasis on the spiritual development. The most important thing it taught me (and still teaches me) is that it's better to avoid a confrontation all together than it is to win one....but if you get into one, do what you need to do to get home safely. There are no rules in a street fight. __________________ Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitude - Frederick Douglass

July 6th, 2009, 10:13 PM	#14
ExSoldier VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Coral Gables, FL Posts: 4,856	I have dabbled in Aikido for several years, less recently. I got into it because it was simply the most beautiful flowing interaction of sheer kinetic energy AND it doesn't take any strength. No punches or kicks. Purely defensive. You can't grab somebody and perform an Aikido technique it simply won't work. But if somebody or more than one somebody tries to grab YOU, watch out! I have used the art as a teacher in an inner city high school more than once and it has always worked even though I never rose above a white belt. In Aikido there are NO belts except white and black. There are senior students that are exemplified by the Black HAKAMA ceremonial pants worn. They look so large and flowing they appear to be a floor length skirt. They can be a pain to maneuver in but supposedly they teach to never let one's feet move from the ground lest you become entangled in the garment and fall. Teaches you to slide your feet instead of lifting one foot at anytime where you are automatically off balance. The garment teaches "center" and "balance" very well. MY particular Dojo was superb in that they will allow a person who might have a hard time with slamming one's older body on the mats to "walk out of" a technique instead of forcefully meeting the mat. For me, in my post surgical condition that's going to be crucial since I intend to go back and finish my studies until I earn a black belt. I'll have lost the weight and I'll have my health back and I'll have the time. By way of reference: Steven Seagal is a 7th dan Aikido Master. His movies are not pure Aikido, except the first one, ABOVE THE LAW. That was pretty much the real deal. Now he does a lot of punches and kicking too, so he's gone into other styles. But for my purposes, Aikido is perfect. I have done Tang Soo Do Karate and classic Jujuitsu, but I find Aikido is so natural and ... well, healthy for my body, emotions and soul that there is nothing else I'd like to explore. If you like, I can discuss the few times I have used the art in a real defensive manner but it was no big deal, not a protracted "fight," just a student getting blustery and full of himself after getting disciplined in class for being a jerk. Usually they come up and get real REAL close (folks thinks this is intimidating but one who practices Aikido loves it) and they sneer and say in a menacing growl: "What chooo gonna do now MISTER white expletive deleted." Then after I clearly warn and ask them NOT to touch me they try a shove or even better grab my shirt with a fist, prepping for a strike. It's usually all over in a second. Them on the ground screaming in the arm lock/wrist lock or finger technique I'd responded with. Word travels extremely fast in a high school. One or two encounters like that and everybody calms down and gets real respectful. Especially after I circulate my old military photo album. Once in awhile I've helped the special ed teachers handle an enraged autistic child out of control. When I changed schools once mid year (deeper into the inner city) my kids at the first school all called their buddies at the next school and told them: You got an awesome teacher inbound. But don't mess with him, or he'll KILL YOU DEAD. 'Nuff said. In all my 15 years between those two schools I've never been touched beyond those few "tries." The ROTC sergeant also commented it had something to do with my 14 years as an army officer. Called it "command bearing" and there is some truth to that as well. __________________ Former Infantry Captain; 20 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO. Last edited by ExSoldier; July 6th, 2009 at 10:43 PM.. Reason: correct spelling

July 6th, 2009, 11:41 PM	#18
mercop Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: PA Posts: 608	Yoshin Ryu Ju Jitsu, Judo and ghetto experience along with being exposed to just about everything. Now I concentrate on what is the same instead of the differences and considering the application.- George __________________ 2010 MCS Calander http://docs.google.com/View?id=dgb7wjh3_299f8tncbcz

July 6th, 2009, 11:52 PM	#19
ExSoldier VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Coral Gables, FL Posts: 4,856	I have also come to understand that the perfect weapon in personal combat is whatever I'm holding in my hand at the moment. In school, for the very few times I had a concern about a potential threat after school, I always walked (actually: strolled as if I hadn't a care in the world while maintaining condition orange) I did so with a rolled section of the Miami Herald's local section under my arm. Sensei showed us a way to make that into an extremely efficient kubotan type instrument. It works! __________________ Former Infantry Captain; 20 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

July 6th, 2009, 10:44 PM	#16
wings816 Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NH Posts: 32	I started Uechi-Ryu Karate a few months ago. Great dojo, the director of training has done a lot of consulting for police agencies and such. Everyone is very friendly and also takes training seriously. The approach is traditional with kata and lots of technical work balanced out by sparring and consideration to what happens when the SHTF and technique can go out the window. I like the style because it's close in and a "hard" style with strikes. I would like to balance it out with jiu-jitsu after I get a good foundation in what I've chosen to be my core style.

July 6th, 2009, 10:48 PM	#17
United93 Ex Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Maine Posts: 912	ExSoldier - Krav Maga is an Israeli martial art.

July 7th, 2009, 12:34 AM	#20
psychophipps Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Washington State Posts: 383	Chinese Kempo Karate (basically Kajukenbo) was my first style and it was all about eye gouging, groin crushing, knee stomping, and general street tough mayhem. Learned some good stuff (best lessons were how to turn on my inner animal) but it didn't take me long to realize that my first response to an attack being to tear a random soft tissue part loose will get my teenage butt in a sling right-quick. My second was art was Takahashi-Ryu Karate Do (Goju Ryu) and I learned some good stuff there as well. While my Kajukembo instructor was fond of disrespecting "that traditional garbage", I learned that newer it seems, the older it tends to be if you really look. Only so many ways to efficiently hurt people with your body and mankind has been at it for quite a while, after all. Third, and best IMO, was Small Circle Jujitsu. This sensei was strictly street defense application of techniques that you are comfortable with. Yes, you had to know your locks, throws, etc but he wanted you to make the best martial art to meet your own needs, body type, and personality. I was the big guy with the long limbs that made a good uke because I grunt a lot when I get hit or flung around. Open workouts on Saturdays from 10-2 bought in a huge gamut of different styles so we picked and chose from about everything out there because we had some of the best mats in town. During this time I was also doing the Brazilian Jujitsu/MMA stuff on the side with my buddy and training with his mom who was a 20 year student and multi-art black belt in various Filipino styles. I also worked out with a Wun Hop Kun Do guy from work who studied directly under Prof Dacascos pretty regularly. At this point I was basically working as a server and hitting the mats 5-6 times a week for at least 1-2 hours on top of my daily workouts at home. Did some more Kempo for a bit at a McDojo in Wisconsin and worked out with some Capoeira people while I was there. More Small Circle Jujitsu before moving to start my business. Kajukenbo again for a while. Emperado system with some Prof Buell tossed in to even things out. Very hard-hitting and capital "B" Brutal. Spent a lot of time with some truly glorious bruises and generally had a blast. Started on working my bits and pieces around with a good friend to finally distill my stuff into what I'm really looking for. Learned why I chose the stuff I chose and dug back into the ol' B box to make sure I wasn't missing any hidden gold. More Kempo with a different instructor. Some goodies but way too much (and many) forms and random esoteric weapons.

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