Good: Hopkins student kills intruder with samurai sword - Page 2

tbrenke · September 15th, 2009, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edr9x23super

Too bad he didn't go for the head.

he still gets a "good job" from me. the affect and outcome was better this way. lopping off his head would have been to quick to think that he should have been going to church instead of breaking in.

I still like the outcome, Ted would be proud.
"I like dead offenders"

farronwolf · September 15th, 2009, 02:28 PM

Question. How does one know if the severed hand was an initial injury or the last injury sustained by the dead man? Maybe the owner was fending him off with the sword and the dead man kept coming at him until his had was severed.

There is lots of information missing on this one yet. I hope that the sword weilding fellow doesn't get time over this but as stated previously it is MD.

llongshot · September 15th, 2009, 03:47 PM

Just goes to show that one should practice with edged weapons as well as firearms. This probably wouldn't have had the same outcome if the perp had a gun. Never take a knife to a gunfight. However, some situations require that you use whatever is at hand (no pun intended).

Janq · September 15th, 2009, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farronwolf

Question. How does one know if the severed hand was an initial injury or the last injury sustained by the dead man? Maybe the owner was fending him off with the sword and the dead man kept coming at him until his had was severed...

A fine question, but it does not matter/make a difference in the end.

If the body strike had been the first action, and no doubt the mortal blow, then following the 'reasonable person' view any follow on and secondary blows would be unnecessary as related to _stopping_ the threat as in relation to protection of ones own self from t he threat and/or ability for ones own self to have means to remove them self from the threat.

That would be a (MD) prosecutors view, and case angle.

- Janq

lance22 · September 15th, 2009, 04:19 PM

He gets a +1 from me. The pen might not be mightier than the sword after all

As to whether it was excessive, whether he had the option of flight, yada yada the courts can sort out. Career criminals won't be getting any sympathy from me.

EdC · September 15th, 2009, 04:36 PM

If I saw a guy in my garage, and didn't have a gun, if I had a choice,I don't think that I would've wanted to get that close to him, unless I know the BG was unarmed, and I was really good with the sword, which might be why the student may have some legal Problems. Janq raised some good issues. (Hope the student didn't get spattered with the BG's blood).

Reborn · September 15th, 2009, 04:50 PM

Well it toooooooooo bad that National Health Care isn't in effect to take care of the bad guy........lets see fix the hand or lethal injection..

OH never mind government didn't get a chance to save him....ahhhhhh

CJ810 · September 15th, 2009, 05:00 PM

I realize that we all probably disagree with the idea of the DA prosecuting the student, but isn't it reasonable that a wound from the sword might not be instantly fatal, and might not have stopped the attack by the lunging criminal and a second hit might have been required? And did the article say that there were two strikes? Isn't it also possible that the wrist and torso injuries were caused by the same strike? A katana's a pretty long sword, correct? The guy could have tried to deflect the blow and gotten hit on the wrist and torso in the same strike.

Janq · September 15th, 2009, 05:14 PM

The article states;

"...found the suspected burglar suffering from a nearly severed hand and lacerations to his upper body..."

That is a at the least two distinct strikes if not more.
Note the AP reports that his hand was completely severed as in 'cut off'.

Outside of this BG having been doped up on PCP (which would be discovered later) or being the incarnation of Michael Myers himself (who is functionally unstoppable), it is 'reasonable person' reasonable to expect that a cutting (!) blow by a sword to most any part of the body would be more than enough to dissuade an attacker.

As to length there is in my area a museum that features a huge collection of period _real_ Japanese swords and other combat arms. I very much doubt this student in a group home owned a real katana, but rather a mall purchased imitation.
Regardless though they are not very long...Much less than a yard stick and approx. the length of a youth league baseball bat. Think 18" barrel shotgun and you would be pretty close.

Don't get me wrong as I'm not defending the BG.Nor do I have sympathy for the BG.
Clearly the BG was in the wrong.
I'm not condemning the victim either.
But expect a MD prosecutor to do so and to take a similar tack as what I've posted...Which is their job to do so as to prosecute violations within and to the letter of the law.

In this case specifically the letter of the law is clear. :|
If item #4 as I'd noted prior were not on the books then there would be no further discussion but who will cover clean up of the blood.

As a lesson by proxy for us all regardless of the tool we might employ as an arm, a _measured_ response is expected and in select states such as MD by statute is required.

- Janq

CT-Mike · September 15th, 2009, 05:16 PM

Johns Hopkins student kills intruder with samurai sword, police say -- baltimoresun.com

Quote:

A Johns Hopkins University student armed with a samurai sword killed a man who broke into the garage of his off-campus residence early Tuesday, a Baltimore police spokesman said.

According to preliminary reports, a resident of the 300 block of E. University Parkway called police about a suspicious person, department spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said. An off-duty officer responded about 1:20 a.m. to the area with university security, according to Guglielmi. They heard shouts and screams from a neighboring house and found the suspected burglar suffering from a nearly severed hand and laceration to his upper body, he said.

The suspect was pronounced dead at the scene. Based on the initial investigation, the student killed the man with only one strike of the sword, according to Guglielmi. The medical examiner will make the final determination, he said.

The student told police that he heard a commotion in the house and went downstairs armed with the sword, Guglielmi said. He saw the side door to the garage had been pried open and found a man inside, who lunged at the student. There was no indication that the suspected burglar was armed, however, according to Guglielmi.

Burglars had already stolen two laptops and a Sony PlayStation from the student's home Monday, Guglielmi said.

Dennis O'Shea, a spokesman for Johns Hopkins, said all four residents of the house are undergraduate students at the university. Police had released three of the roommates by Tuesday afternoon. The student who wielded the sword remained in custody while investigators worked to corroborate his story with evidence and witness statements. Police have not released the name of the residents, but department sources identified the detained student as John Pontolillo, 20, of Wall, N.J.

The city state's attorney's office will determine whether to press charges, Guglielmi said.

According to this article, the INITIAL investigation states that there was only one strike of the sword, so it appears that CJ810 may be correct in his assumption. I can see the student raising the sword, the perp raising his hand to block the strike, thus losing his hand and taking a mortal strike to the torso. Seems very plausible.

Hopefully the kid isn't prosecuted.

September 15th, 2009, 02:28 PM	#12
farronwolf VIP Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 2,607	Question. How does one know if the severed hand was an initial injury or the last injury sustained by the dead man? Maybe the owner was fending him off with the sword and the dead man kept coming at him until his had was severed. There is lots of information missing on this one yet. I hope that the sword weilding fellow doesn't get time over this but as stated previously it is MD. __________________ Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.

September 15th, 2009, 04:19 PM	#15
lance22 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: MN Posts: 792	He gets a +1 from me. The pen might not be mightier than the sword after all As to whether it was excessive, whether he had the option of flight, yada yada the courts can sort out. Career criminals won't be getting any sympathy from me. __________________ Get MN specific carry information at http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum/

September 15th, 2009, 04:50 PM	#17
Reborn Distinguished Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Rowlett, Texas Posts: 1,722	Well it toooooooooo bad that National Health Care isn't in effect to take care of the bad guy........lets see fix the hand or lethal injection.. OH never mind government didn't get a chance to save him....ahhhhhh __________________ Psalms 144:1 Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. Senior Instructor for Tactical and Defensive of Texas http://www.tac-def-tx.com/ CHL INSTRUCTOR Retired LEO NRA member TCHA member

September 15th, 2009, 05:14 PM	#19
Janq VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,525	The article states; "...found the suspected burglar suffering from a nearly severed hand and lacerations to his upper body..." That is a at the least two distinct strikes if not more. Note the AP reports that his hand was completely severed as in 'cut off'. Outside of this BG having been doped up on PCP (which would be discovered later) or being the incarnation of Michael Myers himself (who is functionally unstoppable), it is 'reasonable person' reasonable to expect that a cutting (!) blow by a sword to most any part of the body would be more than enough to dissuade an attacker. As to length there is in my area a museum that features a huge collection of period _real_ Japanese swords and other combat arms. I very much doubt this student in a group home owned a real katana, but rather a mall purchased imitation. Regardless though they are not very long...Much less than a yard stick and approx. the length of a youth league baseball bat. Think 18" barrel shotgun and you would be pretty close. Don't get me wrong as I'm not defending the BG.Nor do I have sympathy for the BG. Clearly the BG was in the wrong. I'm not condemning the victim either. But expect a MD prosecutor to do so and to take a similar tack as what I've posted...Which is their job to do so as to prosecute violations within and to the letter of the law. In this case specifically the letter of the law is clear. :\| If item #4 as I'd noted prior were not on the books then there would be no further discussion but who will cover clean up of the blood. As a lesson by proxy for us all regardless of the tool we might employ as an arm, a _measured_ response is expected and in select states such as MD by statute is required. - Janq __________________ "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy Monday, March 12, 2007 -- Op Ed -- The Washington Post

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September 15th, 2009, 03:47 PM	#13
llongshot Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Deep Southern Illinois Posts: 277	Just goes to show that one should practice with edged weapons as well as firearms. This probably wouldn't have had the same outcome if the perp had a gun. Never take a knife to a gunfight. However, some situations require that you use whatever is at hand (no pun intended).

September 15th, 2009, 04:36 PM	#16
EdC Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Speedway, Indiana Posts: 123	If I saw a guy in my garage, and didn't have a gun, if I had a choice,I don't think that I would've wanted to get that close to him, unless I know the BG was unarmed, and I was really good with the sword, which might be why the student may have some legal Problems. Janq raised some good issues. (Hope the student didn't get spattered with the BG's blood).

September 15th, 2009, 05:00 PM	#18
CJ810 Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 200	I realize that we all probably disagree with the idea of the DA prosecuting the student, but isn't it reasonable that a wound from the sword might not be instantly fatal, and might not have stopped the attack by the lunging criminal and a second hit might have been required? And did the article say that there were two strikes? Isn't it also possible that the wrist and torso injuries were caused by the same strike? A katana's a pretty long sword, correct? The guy could have tried to deflect the blow and gotten hit on the wrist and torso in the same strike.