Highly Deadly Spork & Killer Cub Scouts - Page 3

DaveH · October 13th, 2009, 02:46 PM

On an earlier thread someone told me to get with the times, or something of that sort.

But I will repeat myself.

I was given my first pocked knife when I was about four -- remember who, when, and where but can't pin down which Christmas it was.

I carried one until Paris Island when they made me mail it home and gave me a bayonet.

Yup, all the way through school. Got into a fair share of fights. Never pulled the knife. Could it have been because I knew the other boy had one, too? Never had the other boy pull one on me. Same reason?

off

boscobeans · October 13th, 2009, 04:03 PM

Zero tolerance... Stupidity.

Back when I was in grade school I sold a bunch of magazines and got a hunting knife with a 5 INCH BLADE, an axe and sheaths for each. Just can't imagine a seventh grader getting a knife and an axe from a nun these days....

bosco

BentLink · October 13th, 2009, 08:15 PM

"...an instrument, article or substance which is readily capable of causing
serious physical injury or death." Sounds like my shoe laces and pen fit that definition.

Rugergirl · October 13th, 2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BentLink

"...an instrument, article or substance which is readily capable of causing
serious physical injury or death." Sounds like my shoe laces and pen fit that definition.

Belts must be considered a weapon as well. Something has to explain the trend of wearing ones pants 3 inches below the butt

Theman9mm · October 13th, 2009, 10:18 PM

I think i need to sell all my guns and get me that Spork. It sounds to me like it's up there with a rocket launcher the way they are acting.

chezrad · October 13th, 2009, 10:50 PM

How about the Eagle Scout that got suspended for 20 days for having a 2 inch pocket knife in a survival kit..Locked Up In His Car!!! Pissed me off so bad I sent al etter to the state superintendent of education and all of the potential candidates for the post.

A 17-year-old Eagle Scout in upstate New York has been barred from stepping foot on school grounds for 20 days — for keeping a 2-inch pocketknife locked in a survival kit in his car.

Matthew Whalen, a senior at Lansingburgh Senior High School, says he follows the Boy Scout motto and is always prepared, stocking his car with a sleeping bag, water, a ready-to-eat meal — and the knife, which was given to him by his grandfather, a police chief in a nearby town.

But Lansingburgh High has a zero-tolerance policy, and when school officials discovered that Whalen kept his knife locked in his car, he says, they suspended him for five days — and then tacked on an additional 15 after a hearing.

Click here for video.

The incident is similar to the case of Zachary Christie, a 6-year-old Cub Scout in Delaware who faces up to 45 days in his district’s reform school for bringing a scout utensil that can be used as a fork, spoon and knife to school. But for Whalen — who has received an award from the Boy Scouts of America for saving a life and completed 10 weeks of basic military training last summer — the stakes are much higher:

He is concerned that the blot on his school record could kill his dream of attending West Point.

In an interview with Foxnews.com, Whalen recalled the incident that led to his suspension.

He said his school's assistant principal, Frank Macri, approached him on Sept. 21 and asked him if he was carrying a knife.

"I was taken down to the office, and they told me that a student told them that I was carrying a knife," Whalen said.

He said he told them "they could search me and everything, and they said, 'There's no need for that.'"

Whalen said he doesn't know who might have said he was carrying a knife, but he was open with school officials.

"And they said, 'Do you own a knife?' I said, 'Yes, I'm a soldier and an Eagle Scout — I own a knife.'

"And they were like, 'Well, is it in your car or anything?' And I told them, 'Yeah, it's in my car right now.'

"And they asked me to show it to them. I didn't realize it was going to be a problem. I knew it wasn't illegal — my police chief grandfather gave the knife to me."

Whalen said he took school administrators to his car because he thought their fears would be allayed when they saw it was just a 2-inch knife.

"They thought I had a dagger in my car or something like that, so I thought yeah, I'd show it to them," Whalen said.

"I showed it to them, and they told me I had a knife on school property and had to be suspended."

But things didn't end there, Whalen said.

"They brought a cop in, who told them 'he's not breaking any laws, so I can't charge him with anything.'"

Whalen said he asked Macri why a 2-inch pocketknife would be considered more dangerous than other everyday items around the school.

"I said to him, 'What about a person who has a bat, on a baseball team? That could be a weapon.' And he said, 'Well, it's not the same thing.'"

The school district's policy lists "Possessing a weapon" under "examples of violent conduct," which "may be subject to disciplinary action, up to and including suspension from school."

School district officials did not reply to requests for comment.

Whalen says Macri gave him the longest suspension possible — five school days.

"They gave me the five-day suspension, because that is all a principal can suspend a student for," he said. "And from there, they had a superintendent hearing to see if the superintendent wanted to suspend me for longer.

"But the superintendent wasn't even at the hearing. It was the principal and the athletic director. The vice principal who originally suspended me wasn't even there, and neither was the superintendent. They basically asked me, 'Did you have the knife in your car?' And I said 'Yes, I did.' The meeting was recorded and they told me they were going to play the tape to the superintendent.

"They asked me if I wanted to say anything, and I told them all my accomplishments and what I've done, and the principal even admitted that I had no intent to use the knife, that I had no accessibility to the knife."

But school officials decided to suspend Whalen for an extra 15 days anyway, he said. And unless the decision is changed, he will not be allowed on school grounds until Oct. 21.

Whalen said he does not know why the 15 days were added, but he said a school district employee told him it was because the school wanted to apply its policies consistently.

"I've been told by someone who works for the district that they had to do it, because if someone else had a knife and they saw that I didn't get a suspension, that it would look bad for the school."

School superintendent George Goodwin and Lansingburg Senior High School Principal Angelina Bergin did not return calls for comment Tuesday morning.

Whalen said he has no record of disciplinary problems.

"I think I have a detention from like 10th grade for being late or something like that," he said.

He said the suspension has put his college dreams in jeopardy by keeping him out of class, while making him still responsible for assignments.

Though he is provided with a tutor for 90 minutes a day, he said, "I've been suspended for something like a ninth of my school year, so I'm falling behind drastically in my classes."

In addition to getting back to school as soon as possible, Whalen wants the school to drop the incident from his transcript.

"My dream college would be West Point, and having a pock mark like this on my record could be detrimental. They're looking for the best of the best, and if someone didn't take the time to look through it and examine the case, they would just say, 'hey, this guy had a weapon on school property, and we don't want him at our college.'"

Whalen said that he has received support from the community during the last few weeks.

"I've received tremendous communal support. Almost everyone I've talked to has said they're behind me 100 percent, that it's ridiculous that [the school has] done this me."

Whalen said he is not considering a lawsuit.

"I don't know what I could do, because technically ... I did break the rules, and I'll accept that punishment," he said.

"Perhaps I should have been more aware of the rules. However, I'm more upset about the additional 15 days.... That was entirely optional, and they decided to go through with that."

rottkeeper · October 13th, 2009, 11:01 PM

This story has caught a lot of attention around here and I'm glad to say they support the boy. The zero tolerance crap leaves no room for common sense. This boy will be branded for the rest of his life because of the stupid school administration.

It's a great way for the schools to teach the kids that even the innocent pay the price for the guilty people's deeds.

I remember teachers that would punish the whole class if one person did something wrong..... great way to teach personal responsibility huh.

retsupt99 · October 13th, 2009, 11:10 PM

I retired out of a MI school system. I'm still working in a Southern rural school...this crap embarrasses me...no common sense.

ccw9mm · October 14th, 2009, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HITCH KING

Why can't kids be kids.

Come on people

Where is the malce or intent?

That's exactly the measure that should be used, IMO.

Unless it's clear that the simple tool is being treated and used like a weapon, then a school should, I think, be formally barred from inflicting such damage on the "guilty" parties. Avoiding such administrative stupidities should be a fairly high priority, and it ought to be achievable simply by redefining what constitutes "threat."

A benign, inanimate object just layin' there without any other corroborating factors simply shouldn't be able to be taken as a threat.

chiefjason · October 14th, 2009, 01:58 AM

looks like the suspension will stand but they are dropping the alternative school. Bet those kids could teach him a thing or two about knives.

I remember loaning my knife out to teachers. They knew exactly who to ask. I remember being asked to bring, "all the guns and knives you can get your hands on to school tomorrow." And it was my wrestling coach asking! The only stipulation was to make sure they were unloaded. We needed them from props for our conference championship wrestling poster for my high school. Twice! We distributed the posters to our sponsors all over the county. One of the pics was taken on school property. AHHHH, the good old days.

http://www.timesoftheinternet.com/118874.html

October 13th, 2009, 02:46 PM	#21
DaveH VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: SW Virginia Posts: 2,382	On an earlier thread someone told me to get with the times, or something of that sort. But I will repeat myself. I was given my first pocked knife when I was about four -- remember who, when, and where but can't pin down which Christmas it was. I carried one until Paris Island when they made me mail it home and gave me a bayonet. Yup, all the way through school. Got into a fair share of fights. Never pulled the knife. Could it have been because I knew the other boy had one, too? Never had the other boy pull one on me. Same reason? off __________________ Μολὼν λαβέ I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL BTW -- I am neither a lawyer, nor I do not play one on television or on the Internet. I hope no one assumes that I am giving legal advice Veni, Vidi, Velcro Last edited by DaveH; October 13th, 2009 at 05:49 PM.. Reason: typo

October 13th, 2009, 08:15 PM	#23
BentLink Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Western PA Posts: 168	"...an instrument, article or substance which is readily capable of causing serious physical injury or death." Sounds like my shoe laces and pen fit that definition. __________________ Still Clingin'

October 13th, 2009, 10:18 PM	#25
Theman9mm Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Traverse city, MI Posts: 82	I think i need to sell all my guns and get me that Spork. It sounds to me like it's up there with a rocket launcher the way they are acting. __________________ Taurus Millennium PT145 Pro Taurus Millennium PT140 Pro Taurus Millennium PT111 Pro Taurus Slim PT709 Taurus PT 24/7 Pro c ds (pink) 2 Ruger LCP's Walther P22 Phoenix arms 22 Hi-Point 9mm NRA lifetime Member

October 13th, 2009, 11:01 PM	#27
rottkeeper VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: New York Posts: 2,231	This story has caught a lot of attention around here and I'm glad to say they support the boy. The zero tolerance crap leaves no room for common sense. This boy will be branded for the rest of his life because of the stupid school administration. It's a great way for the schools to teach the kids that even the innocent pay the price for the guilty people's deeds. I remember teachers that would punish the whole class if one person did something wrong..... great way to teach personal responsibility huh. __________________ For as the lighting comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27 NRA Member

October 13th, 2009, 11:10 PM	#28
retsupt99 VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 22,750	I retired out of a MI school system. I'm still working in a Southern rural school...this crap embarrasses me...no common sense. __________________ "That I cannot do." "Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks." *********************************** NRA Life Member

October 13th, 2009, 04:03 PM	#22
boscobeans Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: upstate new york Posts: 719	Zero tolerance... Stupidity. Back when I was in grade school I sold a bunch of magazines and got a hunting knife with a 5 INCH BLADE, an axe and sheaths for each. Just can't imagine a seventh grader getting a knife and an axe from a nun these days.... bosco

October 13th, 2009, 10:50 PM	#26
chezrad New Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: SC Posts: 4	How about the Eagle Scout that got suspended for 20 days for having a 2 inch pocket knife in a survival kit..Locked Up In His Car!!! Pissed me off so bad I sent al etter to the state superintendent of education and all of the potential candidates for the post. A 17-year-old Eagle Scout in upstate New York has been barred from stepping foot on school grounds for 20 days — for keeping a 2-inch pocketknife locked in a survival kit in his car. Matthew Whalen, a senior at Lansingburgh Senior High School, says he follows the Boy Scout motto and is always prepared, stocking his car with a sleeping bag, water, a ready-to-eat meal — and the knife, which was given to him by his grandfather, a police chief in a nearby town. But Lansingburgh High has a zero-tolerance policy, and when school officials discovered that Whalen kept his knife locked in his car, he says, they suspended him for five days — and then tacked on an additional 15 after a hearing. Click here for video. The incident is similar to the case of Zachary Christie, a 6-year-old Cub Scout in Delaware who faces up to 45 days in his district’s reform school for bringing a scout utensil that can be used as a fork, spoon and knife to school. But for Whalen — who has received an award from the Boy Scouts of America for saving a life and completed 10 weeks of basic military training last summer — the stakes are much higher: He is concerned that the blot on his school record could kill his dream of attending West Point. In an interview with Foxnews.com, Whalen recalled the incident that led to his suspension. He said his school's assistant principal, Frank Macri, approached him on Sept. 21 and asked him if he was carrying a knife. "I was taken down to the office, and they told me that a student told them that I was carrying a knife," Whalen said. He said he told them "they could search me and everything, and they said, 'There's no need for that.'" Whalen said he doesn't know who might have said he was carrying a knife, but he was open with school officials. "And they said, 'Do you own a knife?' I said, 'Yes, I'm a soldier and an Eagle Scout — I own a knife.' "And they were like, 'Well, is it in your car or anything?' And I told them, 'Yeah, it's in my car right now.' "And they asked me to show it to them. I didn't realize it was going to be a problem. I knew it wasn't illegal — my police chief grandfather gave the knife to me." Whalen said he took school administrators to his car because he thought their fears would be allayed when they saw it was just a 2-inch knife. "They thought I had a dagger in my car or something like that, so I thought yeah, I'd show it to them," Whalen said. "I showed it to them, and they told me I had a knife on school property and had to be suspended." But things didn't end there, Whalen said. "They brought a cop in, who told them 'he's not breaking any laws, so I can't charge him with anything.'" Whalen said he asked Macri why a 2-inch pocketknife would be considered more dangerous than other everyday items around the school. "I said to him, 'What about a person who has a bat, on a baseball team? That could be a weapon.' And he said, 'Well, it's not the same thing.'" The school district's policy lists "Possessing a weapon" under "examples of violent conduct," which "may be subject to disciplinary action, up to and including suspension from school." School district officials did not reply to requests for comment. Whalen says Macri gave him the longest suspension possible — five school days. "They gave me the five-day suspension, because that is all a principal can suspend a student for," he said. "And from there, they had a superintendent hearing to see if the superintendent wanted to suspend me for longer. "But the superintendent wasn't even at the hearing. It was the principal and the athletic director. The vice principal who originally suspended me wasn't even there, and neither was the superintendent. They basically asked me, 'Did you have the knife in your car?' And I said 'Yes, I did.' The meeting was recorded and they told me they were going to play the tape to the superintendent. "They asked me if I wanted to say anything, and I told them all my accomplishments and what I've done, and the principal even admitted that I had no intent to use the knife, that I had no accessibility to the knife." But school officials decided to suspend Whalen for an extra 15 days anyway, he said. And unless the decision is changed, he will not be allowed on school grounds until Oct. 21. Whalen said he does not know why the 15 days were added, but he said a school district employee told him it was because the school wanted to apply its policies consistently. "I've been told by someone who works for the district that they had to do it, because if someone else had a knife and they saw that I didn't get a suspension, that it would look bad for the school." School superintendent George Goodwin and Lansingburg Senior High School Principal Angelina Bergin did not return calls for comment Tuesday morning. Whalen said he has no record of disciplinary problems. "I think I have a detention from like 10th grade for being late or something like that," he said. He said the suspension has put his college dreams in jeopardy by keeping him out of class, while making him still responsible for assignments. Though he is provided with a tutor for 90 minutes a day, he said, "I've been suspended for something like a ninth of my school year, so I'm falling behind drastically in my classes." In addition to getting back to school as soon as possible, Whalen wants the school to drop the incident from his transcript. "My dream college would be West Point, and having a pock mark like this on my record could be detrimental. They're looking for the best of the best, and if someone didn't take the time to look through it and examine the case, they would just say, 'hey, this guy had a weapon on school property, and we don't want him at our college.'" Whalen said that he has received support from the community during the last few weeks. "I've received tremendous communal support. Almost everyone I've talked to has said they're behind me 100 percent, that it's ridiculous that [the school has] done this me." Whalen said he is not considering a lawsuit. "I don't know what I could do, because technically ... I did break the rules, and I'll accept that punishment," he said. "Perhaps I should have been more aware of the rules. However, I'm more upset about the additional 15 days.... That was entirely optional, and they decided to go through with that."

October 14th, 2009, 01:58 AM	#30
chiefjason Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hickory, NC Posts: 230	looks like the suspension will stand but they are dropping the alternative school. Bet those kids could teach him a thing or two about knives. I remember loaning my knife out to teachers. They knew exactly who to ask. I remember being asked to bring, "all the guns and knives you can get your hands on to school tomorrow." And it was my wrestling coach asking! The only stipulation was to make sure they were unloaded. We needed them from props for our conference championship wrestling poster for my high school. Twice! We distributed the posters to our sponsors all over the county. One of the pics was taken on school property. AHHHH, the good old days. http://www.timesoftheinternet.com/118874.html Last edited by chiefjason; October 14th, 2009 at 02:00 AM.. Reason: added link

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