RANGE REPORT: Kel-Tec Sub 2000 40 cal Folding Carbine

ExSoldier · June 19th, 2006, 12:55 PM

V-E-R-Y accurate. Well for an INDOOR range where the max shot is 25 yards. But kept all shots inside a two-three inch group dead center, although a little bit low. I think this was primarily me and a difficulty in getting a good spot weld with my shooting muffs vs a good sight picture with my OLD eyes. Still I was very happy with the results. I kept my target and I'll try to post a pic. Definitely good enough for government work.

Having said that:

I'M GETTING RID OF THIS FIREARM!

It kicks like Tennessee White Lightnin'! I couldn't believe the PAIN this gun generated in my shoulder! I am literally BRUISED today. If I had to fire this gun in a hostile situation, I'd fire it from the hip. The reason I bought the gun is for my WIFE to use to back me up. That just ain't gonna work. She took one look at my shoulder pocket today and announced she'd stick with her 45 Commander thank you very much!

The gun also failed to chamber a couple of different types of rounds. Since this was a "shakedown run" I fed it ball and a variety of JHP fodder. This could be a normal break-in period and I realize that. ALSO the bolt is extremely difficult to bring into a locked to the rear position. Difficult to manipulate and I'd hate to try and do this under a lot of pressure. The gun dropped the mag it was supplied with, but it held onto the mags I put into it from the M22 & M23 as well as the ultra hi-cap Scherer. By "DROP" I mean that in the middle of a string, it literally slid from the mag well and hit the tray of the range barrier behind which I stood. Now, it is possible that I myself hit the mag release, since this was a new shooting experience. I'm just relating the events.

I bought the gun to serve as a trip combo with my Glock M27 due to the capability to use the same mags...well no M27 9rd mag exchange... but both will use the M22 & M23 & Scherer 29rd mags. It seemed like the perfect combination for me. Now, I'm rethinking this strategy. I'd much rather use my Mini-14 with the factory folding stock. I carry it in the rectangular case I have that is very similar to the case I bought for the Sub 2000 carbine. It doesn't look like a "gun case." Since I'm of using the Mini-14 I can also rethink my primary sidearm and might in fact use my Sig P245 OR I plan to get a Sig P229 SAS with the DAK trigger.

Freedz · June 19th, 2006, 03:00 PM

Great report. I hear the 9mm version doesnt kick nearly as bad. I was thinking about picking one up, now I know not to go for the .40.

ExSoldier · June 19th, 2006, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freedz

Great report. I hear the 9mm version doesnt kick nearly as bad. I was thinking about picking one up, now I know not to go for the .40.

I had the 9mm. It was a pussycat to fire! I traded it even-steven
for the Beretta M92FS that I currently use for IDPA competitions. I love the Beretta to compete with, but I wouldn't carry it on the street as a matter of habit. I will carry it upstate to the FL state match in a few days and I'll feel well armed especially with the 17rd flush fitting Mec-Gar mags I have, but for me the 9mm is strictly for the competition game.

Geeze I couldn't BELIEVE the recoil on the Kel-Tec! My THEORY is that it was a sharp PUNCH because of the stock configuration being straight back rather than the more traditional comb drop of a wooden stocked rifle. Also the very light weight.

The student I was teaching (a true novice) wanted to shoot the thing, but I refused lest I turn the little gal off guns forever! That would be irresponsible. I mean, I was dressed for the south Florida sun and humidity...if I was wearing a P.A.S.T. recoil shield, there wouldn't have been a problem, obviously. But I've fired dozens of rounds of 12ga from my Benelli M121 in IDPA competition strings without even a hint of pain....I've fired my M1A in similar conditions. Even my GARAND didn't hurt like this!

Freedz · June 19th, 2006, 03:40 PM

Damn, that .40 must have had some serious bite! I was thinking 9mm version just because I would buy it for nothing more than a fun gun and ammo would be cheaper.

ExSoldier · June 19th, 2006, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freedz

Damn, that .40 must have had some serious bite! I was thinking 9mm version just because I would buy it for nothing more than a fun gun and ammo would be cheaper.

For what you want, the nine is fine. A very fun gun to shoot and very reliable, as well. Here's a warning though: If you do get one and field strip it for cleaning...do not...EVER pull the trigger while the bolt is out of the gun. If you do...only the FACTORY will be able to put the gun back together. This is a warning that is on the instruction manual.

Still the 9mm is a very fun gun to shoot. Pick up a couple of those Scherer after market 33rd mags and ROCK!

P95Carry · June 19th, 2006, 04:04 PM

Thx for the skinny Jim - I had considered getting a 9mm - just because it folds! but - having got a Camp 45, Camp 9 and CX4 Storm - really can't justify it.

Surprised tho with a big guy like you, it is so brutal in 40 cal - but good to know

Rock and Glock · June 19th, 2006, 04:09 PM

Nice report, but the frustration is not enviable! That's something, that the 12Ga kicks less!

ExSoldier · June 19th, 2006, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock and Glock

Nice report, but the frustration is not enviable! That's something, that the 12Ga kicks less!

I wouldn't say LESS but the 40 seems to much more of a concentrated PUNCH rather than the large SHOVE of a 12.

Rock and Glock · June 19th, 2006, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExSoldier

I wouldn't say LESS but the 40 seems to much more of a concentrated PUNCH rather than the large SHOVE of a 12.

But I bet you're not running low brass birdload in your 12GA either. lol I know you were excited when you got it - is there a recoil damping system for it?

ExSoldier · June 19th, 2006, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock and Glock

But I bet you're not running low brass birdload in your 12GA either. lol I know you were excited when you got it - is there a recoil damping system for it?

Don't know of any recoil dampeners for it...and you're right, the Benelli won't cycle low brass too well. It's recoil and not gas operated which is one reason it's a soft kicker...sorta.

June 19th, 2006, 12:55 PM	#1
ExSoldier VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Coral Gables, FL Posts: 4,151	RANGE REPORT: Kel-Tec Sub 2000 40 cal Folding Carbine V-E-R-Y accurate. Well for an INDOOR range where the max shot is 25 yards. But kept all shots inside a two-three inch group dead center, although a little bit low. I think this was primarily me and a difficulty in getting a good spot weld with my shooting muffs vs a good sight picture with my OLD eyes. Still I was very happy with the results. I kept my target and I'll try to post a pic. Definitely good enough for government work. Having said that: I'M GETTING RID OF THIS FIREARM! It kicks like Tennessee White Lightnin'! I couldn't believe the PAIN this gun generated in my shoulder! I am literally BRUISED today. If I had to fire this gun in a hostile situation, I'd fire it from the hip. The reason I bought the gun is for my WIFE to use to back me up. That just ain't gonna work. She took one look at my shoulder pocket today and announced she'd stick with her 45 Commander thank you very much! The gun also failed to chamber a couple of different types of rounds. Since this was a "shakedown run" I fed it ball and a variety of JHP fodder. This could be a normal break-in period and I realize that. ALSO the bolt is extremely difficult to bring into a locked to the rear position. Difficult to manipulate and I'd hate to try and do this under a lot of pressure. The gun dropped the mag it was supplied with, but it held onto the mags I put into it from the M22 & M23 as well as the ultra hi-cap Scherer. By "DROP" I mean that in the middle of a string, it literally slid from the mag well and hit the tray of the range barrier behind which I stood. Now, it is possible that I myself hit the mag release, since this was a new shooting experience. I'm just relating the events. I bought the gun to serve as a trip combo with my Glock M27 due to the capability to use the same mags...well no M27 9rd mag exchange... but both will use the M22 & M23 & Scherer 29rd mags. It seemed like the perfect combination for me. Now, I'm rethinking this strategy. I'd much rather use my Mini-14 with the factory folding stock. I carry it in the rectangular case I have that is very similar to the case I bought for the Sub 2000 carbine. It doesn't look like a "gun case." Since I'm of using the Mini-14 I can also rethink my primary sidearm and might in fact use my Sig P245 OR I plan to get a Sig P229 SAS with the DAK trigger. __________________ Former Infantry Captain; 20 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO. Last edited by ExSoldier; June 19th, 2006 at 01:02 PM.

June 19th, 2006, 04:04 PM	#6
P95Carry Assistant Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South West PA Posts: 25,339	Thx for the skinny Jim - I had considered getting a 9mm - just because it folds! but - having got a Camp 45, Camp 9 and CX4 Storm - really can't justify it. Surprised tho with a big guy like you, it is so brutal in 40 cal - but good to know __________________ Chris - P95 NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. "To own a gun and assume that you are armed is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!." If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

June 19th, 2006, 04:09 PM	#7
Rock and Glock VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado at 9,500' Posts: 3,502	Nice report, but the frustration is not enviable! That's something, that the 12Ga kicks less! __________________ Richard NRA Life Member "In this world a man must either be anvil or hammer" Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

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June 19th, 2006, 03:00 PM	#2
Freedz Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Western PA Posts: 327	Great report. I hear the 9mm version doesnt kick nearly as bad. I was thinking about picking one up, now I know not to go for the .40.

June 19th, 2006, 03:40 PM	#4
Freedz Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Western PA Posts: 327	Damn, that .40 must have had some serious bite! I was thinking 9mm version just because I would buy it for nothing more than a fun gun and ammo would be cheaper.