Lever-action for car carry - Page 2

randytulsa2 · July 16th, 2006, 03:53 PM

Well, you've got two kinds of ammo for the 7.62 X54. Modern and surplus.

As the mordern stuff goes, you have Sellier & Bellot, Winchester and Wolf. I'm told that the Winchester ammo is Sellier & Bellot ammo that has been re-labeled.

Other brands of modern production 7.62 X 54 ammo are Igman, Prvi Partizan, Olympic and some Russian brands like Barnaul, Silver Bear and Brown Bear. Norma also makes it.

Igman makes 150-grain soft points, Prvi Partizan makes 150- and 180-grain fmj, Barnaul makes 203 grain soft points, and Brown and Silver Bear (I believe) make 185-grain fmj. Norma makes 150- and 180-grain soft point.

With soft point ammo, I prefer to stay with the 150-grain offerings. Mosins were designed to shoot 147 or 148-grain ammo, and 150 is pretty close.

Of course, each rifle's mileage can vary a great deal.

The Norma stuff costs an arm and a leg, and as far as I can tell, it isn't noticeably more accurate than the other stuff.

I'd think that one or other of your local gun shops would have one variety or another of this stuff. Wolf or Winchester, in particular. There are dozens of sources online, too. Sportman's Guide and Cabela's have some.

Speaking of Sportman's Guide, they have both some modern stuff (Wolf) and some varieties of surplus, last time I checked.

You have a dizzying and very, very inexpensive variety of surplus ammo available. It's all FMJ, but fun to shoot. Most of it is corrosive (which sounds much worse than it actually is- it means you need to squirt your rifle's barrel and action down with Windex after a range session).

And that surplus stuff is available all over the place. To name some of the bigger suppliers, you've got J&G Sales, Southern Ohio Gun Works, and AIM Surplus.

And, that 7.62 X 54 surplus is a LOT cheaper than most other ammo. A lot.

OD · July 16th, 2006, 05:38 PM

I use one of these two

30WCF

or .45 Colt.

AzQkr · July 16th, 2006, 10:24 PM

I'd suggest going here and reading before deciding on a lever gun for the truck in pistol calibers.

http://shootersforum.com/forumdisplay.htm?f=61

The win 94's action is made for rifle calibers and there are a lot of reports on that lever forum that they are finicky with a lot of loads in pistol calibers.

That said, I carry a Winchester 94 20" barrel made 1982 [ no safety button ] in WCF [ 30-30 ] in the truck. It was a hard decision as I also have a 44mag Marlin lever that constantly begs to go there in it's place.

After much reading on ballistics between the pistol calibers and the 30-30 I chose to go with the rifle caliber for the truck gun. Read some on that site and then decide would be my suggestion.

I've got an EMF Rossi with no safety button on order from Steve Young in SS, 20" round barrel in .357 caliber. That caliber in a 20" barrel gets 1800-1900 fps and really makes the 357 shine ballistically. Energy will be about 1700 out the tube which is close to 30-30 ballistics. Mine will be stoked with Buffalo Bore 157gr loadings.

If you are unfamiliar with Buffalo Bore, check their site as well. Serious loads in all major calibers.

My suggestion would of course be the 30-30 lever in Win or Marlin guise.

Edited to add: Mine sits with 6 in the tube, none in the chamber in the truck with a butt sleeve holding 8 more on tap. There's another 6 on a belt sleeve next to it which can snap on the belt in short order if I need to leave the truck any distance as well. Thats a box of 20 on tap and there's another box of 20 under the drivers seat with some 9mm and 45acp.

Edited to add: The guys on that site who live and breath the levers for the most part tell us that the Winny has a two stage lever and thats why it has problems with straight wall cartirdges.

They also said you can get them that have no issues and others just will not function properly without major work. You get lucky or you don't with the pistol calibers in Winny 94's

Brownie

OD · July 16th, 2006, 10:38 PM

I've never had a moments trouble with any of my '94s chambered in .45 Colt.

ExSoldier · July 16th, 2006, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risque007

Since I just turned 18, in Missouri, I can carry a long gun (shotgun or rifle) loaded, and I thinking about getting a good lever-action rifle in a handgun caliber. Now, most of the time I plan on keeping the lil fella in locked up in the trunk, but if high-alert time came and I needed it close, where would you recommend keeping it in the car for quick access?

First off, check the laws in your state. When I was 18 here in Florida, you couldn't buy ammo that was commonly available for both handguns and rifles. That included 22LR. I could buy 12 ga all day long or .30-06 but nothing in a 45. So look out.

Next, I would take my Winchester M94 .30-30 over any handgun round for reach and hitting power as well as a nice comforting light thump in recoil! I hated my Winchester M94 in .357 because the recoil was unpleasant and the accuracy was not near what I got from the venerable thutty thutty.

You might take a look at the Cabelas catalog. They offer a rack that fits above your windshield visors to hold rifles. Nice and out of sight but quickly available.

If you are allowed by law to purchase pistol ammo, you might also check into the Kel-Tec folding CARBINE in 9mm. I used to have one of those and loved it. Currently own the 40 S&W version and don't like it so much. Except the fact that it folds neatly in half to about 18 inches in length. and unfolds in a matter of moments. It's very quick and I have a 29rd high cap mag for it, and it takes standard Glock mags for the M23 & M22.

Still for the value and the utility...you can't (IMHO) beat the .30-30 lever action. Either a Winchester or a Marlin or even a Henry.

hsuCowboy98 · July 17th, 2006, 01:41 AM

I actually do have a Mosin-Nagant in 7.62 x 54, but I've heard that that rifle shell is no longer made. Where could I get ammo for it?

Surplus ammo is all over the place, and several companies like S&B, Monarch, and Wolf make new production non corrosive ammo. Last time I bought some from sportsmansguide.com, I think I paid 1.60 per box of 20. Theres plenty of ammo for it around. The problem with using a full power rifle like that is over-penetration on soft and hard targets alike. ( the mil-surp from russia has a solid steel core...it will punch through 1'' and thicker steel)

PatrioticRick · July 17th, 2006, 04:23 AM

Have to go along with the Winchester '94 in a .357, I love mine and it shoots real good.

Mass-Diver · July 17th, 2006, 10:24 AM

Why not just get a shotgun? For carry in car, I'd just pick up a pistol-grip pump 12gauge.

That said, I have winchester 30-30, great rifle, always works. But, I would never use one for in-home self defense, again the shotgun just has too advantages in that situation as well.

paknheat · July 17th, 2006, 06:57 PM

You can't go wrong with a 30/30. I prefer Marlin to Winchester, But with the addition of Hornady's Lever Evolution ammo it will take the 30/30 into a whole new ballistics relm.Whichever make and model you choose.

AzQkr · July 18th, 2006, 02:10 PM

P95Carry;

How do you find that dot on the top of yours works being so high off the bore line? Can you get any cheekweld with that? It appears to be see through mounting and I'd like to hear whether you use the sights or is that set up just a fail safe backup for the Dot going bellyup?

Whats the dot in MOA you are using?

Thanks

Brownie

July 16th, 2006, 03:53 PM	#11
randytulsa2 Distinguished Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,443	Man, Oh, Man....there are truckloads of 7.62 X 54 ammo out there! Well, you've got two kinds of ammo for the 7.62 X54. Modern and surplus. As the mordern stuff goes, you have Sellier & Bellot, Winchester and Wolf. I'm told that the Winchester ammo is Sellier & Bellot ammo that has been re-labeled. Other brands of modern production 7.62 X 54 ammo are Igman, Prvi Partizan, Olympic and some Russian brands like Barnaul, Silver Bear and Brown Bear. Norma also makes it. Igman makes 150-grain soft points, Prvi Partizan makes 150- and 180-grain fmj, Barnaul makes 203 grain soft points, and Brown and Silver Bear (I believe) make 185-grain fmj. Norma makes 150- and 180-grain soft point. With soft point ammo, I prefer to stay with the 150-grain offerings. Mosins were designed to shoot 147 or 148-grain ammo, and 150 is pretty close. Of course, each rifle's mileage can vary a great deal. The Norma stuff costs an arm and a leg, and as far as I can tell, it isn't noticeably more accurate than the other stuff. I'd think that one or other of your local gun shops would have one variety or another of this stuff. Wolf or Winchester, in particular. There are dozens of sources online, too. Sportman's Guide and Cabela's have some. Speaking of Sportman's Guide, they have both some modern stuff (Wolf) and some varieties of surplus, last time I checked. You have a dizzying and very, very inexpensive variety of surplus ammo available. It's all FMJ, but fun to shoot. Most of it is corrosive (which sounds much worse than it actually is- it means you need to squirt your rifle's barrel and action down with Windex after a range session). And that surplus stuff is available all over the place. To name some of the bigger suppliers, you've got J&G Sales, Southern Ohio Gun Works, and AIM Surplus. And, that 7.62 X 54 surplus is a LOT cheaper than most other ammo. A lot.

July 16th, 2006, 05:38 PM	#12
OD VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Vatican City Posts: 2,724	I use one of these two 30WCF or .45 Colt. __________________ OD "Slow down, you'll get a more harmonious outcome...." -------------------------------------------- *"The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." - Jeff Cooper*

July 16th, 2006, 10:24 PM	#13
AzQkr Distinguished Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: In the Superstitions Posts: 1,378	I'd suggest going here and reading before deciding on a lever gun for the truck in pistol calibers. http://shootersforum.com/forumdisplay.htm?f=61 The win 94's action is made for rifle calibers and there are a lot of reports on that lever forum that they are finicky with a lot of loads in pistol calibers. That said, I carry a Winchester 94 20" barrel made 1982 [ no safety button ] in WCF [ 30-30 ] in the truck. It was a hard decision as I also have a 44mag Marlin lever that constantly begs to go there in it's place. After much reading on ballistics between the pistol calibers and the 30-30 I chose to go with the rifle caliber for the truck gun. Read some on that site and then decide would be my suggestion. I've got an EMF Rossi with no safety button on order from Steve Young in SS, 20" round barrel in .357 caliber. That caliber in a 20" barrel gets 1800-1900 fps and really makes the 357 shine ballistically. Energy will be about 1700 out the tube which is close to 30-30 ballistics. Mine will be stoked with Buffalo Bore 157gr loadings. If you are unfamiliar with Buffalo Bore, check their site as well. Serious loads in all major calibers. My suggestion would of course be the 30-30 lever in Win or Marlin guise. Edited to add: Mine sits with 6 in the tube, none in the chamber in the truck with a butt sleeve holding 8 more on tap. There's another 6 on a belt sleeve next to it which can snap on the belt in short order if I need to leave the truck any distance as well. Thats a box of 20 on tap and there's another box of 20 under the drivers seat with some 9mm and 45acp. Edited to add: The guys on that site who live and breath the levers for the most part tell us that the Winny has a two stage lever and thats why it has problems with straight wall cartirdges. They also said you can get them that have no issues and others just will not function properly without major work. You get lucky or you don't with the pistol calibers in Winny 94's Brownie __________________ The mind is the limiting factor http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/index.php Last edited by AzQkr; July 17th, 2006 at 02:03 AM.

July 16th, 2006, 10:38 PM	#14
OD VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Vatican City Posts: 2,724	I've never had a moments trouble with any of my '94s chambered in .45 Colt. __________________ OD "Slow down, you'll get a more harmonious outcome...." -------------------------------------------- *"The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." - Jeff Cooper*

July 17th, 2006, 01:41 AM	#16
hsuCowboy98 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 1,023	I actually do have a Mosin-Nagant in 7.62 x 54, but I've heard that that rifle shell is no longer made. Where could I get ammo for it? Surplus ammo is all over the place, and several companies like S&B, Monarch, and Wolf make new production non corrosive ammo. Last time I bought some from sportsmansguide.com, I think I paid 1.60 per box of 20. Theres plenty of ammo for it around. The problem with using a full power rifle like that is over-penetration on soft and hard targets alike. ( the mil-surp from russia has a solid steel core...it will punch through 1'' and thicker steel) __________________ Fear No Evil.

July 17th, 2006, 04:23 AM	#17
PatrioticRick VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rigby, Idaho Posts: 3,148	Have to go along with the Winchester '94 in a .357, I love mine and it shoots real good. __________________ "Someone breaking into our Country should have to face the same outcome as someone breaking into our home. I fail to see what the difference is." USN/USAF Retired/Desert Shield/Desert Storm DAV Life Member NRA Life Member

July 17th, 2006, 10:24 AM	#18
Mass-Diver Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: MA Posts: 205	Why not just get a shotgun? For carry in car, I'd just pick up a pistol-grip pump 12gauge. That said, I have winchester 30-30, great rifle, always works. But, I would never use one for in-home self defense, again the shotgun just has too advantages in that situation as well.

July 17th, 2006, 06:57 PM	#19
paknheat Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 248	You can't go wrong with a 30/30. I prefer Marlin to Winchester, But with the addition of Hornady's Lever Evolution ammo it will take the 30/30 into a whole new ballistics relm.Whichever make and model you choose. __________________ A armed person is a citizen-An unarmed person is a future victim.

July 18th, 2006, 02:10 PM	#20
AzQkr Distinguished Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: In the Superstitions Posts: 1,378	P95Carry; How do you find that dot on the top of yours works being so high off the bore line? Can you get any cheekweld with that? It appears to be see through mounting and I'd like to hear whether you use the sights or is that set up just a fail safe backup for the Dot going bellyup? Whats the dot in MOA you are using? Thanks Brownie __________________ The mind is the limiting factor http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/index.php

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