gregarat

Man I hate to burst bubbles, but if your want a Scout/Sniper team. You need atleast a good rangefinder, and spoting scope, also Binoculars.
If you can carry 400rds of rifle ammo, why cant you have a cleaning kit? Like someone said earlier, you cant hold M.O.A accuracy withought cleaning. Thats nessesary if you want to reach out to 800y. At 800y, I would want sub M.O.A.! I would need a few more hours at the rifle range too. My long range shooting skills are as dull as a butter Knife.

As for wepons that will do at 800y. The Rem700, and M21(I like the 21 over the 25) are good choices.
I would like a Rem700 Police Tactical in .300 Win mag, topped with a Leupold Mark 4 scope, and a M21.
If I was forced to choose from my guns. I would use My Ruger Mk77 6.5 x55mm Swedish , with a Timney trigger, and a Leupold Var - X 111 3.5-10x, along with my Sub-2000 (Im not geting 800y shots around here eather). I dont have my good rangefinder or spoting scope anymore, I just have my crap rangefinder, and spoting scope. But thats also no biggy in this enviroment.

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cagueits

Well, you have two scopes that don't need to come off your rifle, so if you loose your binos, the other scope can be used by your spoter.

Range finders will eventually run out of batteries, so a good MILDOT reticle will take care of the rangefinding during the daytime.

400 rounds (200 for you, 200 for your buddy/SO) can be spread through your pockets/rucksack/etc... so it would be hard to loose all your ammo vs one cleaning kit, that usually has to go in 1 or 2 baggies - if you have to leave the area in a hurry and you forget the cleaning gear, well, you have your other team member's kit - until you loose that one too, then you are SOL.

I assume sub MOA rifle would have tight tolerances, so reliability under abuse will drop. I am also assuming less than 1MOA means I would have to drop range to make hits on windy enviroment at 500yds+; the more distance in between me and the target the better for my specific needs.

I would feel much better knowing I carry a good rifle, that will operate under abuse, even if you don't clean it. I would plan on not loosing the cleaning kit, but Murphy doesn't care about what you plan/want - he's got his own agenda.

My range requirements are for my geographic location/political climate. We puertoricans are 2nd class US citizens; an act of the US Congress or a weird decision from SCOTUS can make the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico a republic overnight - striping our US citizenship, leaving us with no rights to enter the US. I think caos will take over the island within a week, we'll have massive migrations to the US, were puertoricans will be turned back to the island by Border Patrol, then we will turn into Haiti. I may get a permanent resident visa to go back to the "states", and go through the naturalization process, however that may take at least 3 months to clear the red tape - due to the 2.5million puertoricans requesting visas at the same time. Meanwhile, with no airports/seaports working, I'm gona have to find a way to get off this island/stay alive. Hopefully this never happens and we become the 51st state of the union, but one has to be a realistic about US interests overseas, and plan accordingly.

My requirements may not be your requirements, and thats cool. I'll be grateful of any info you can contribute to my needs (the two best rifles for the requirements given).

AzQkr

cagueits;

Lose the minute of angle requirement in this scenario, all thats necessary is minute of man ayway at any range you'll engage.

My cleaning kit is always in the buttstock of the M1A, I don't lose it unless I lose the rifle, then it is useless to me anyway.

My N/V scope gives me ownership of the dark, and the ranging daytime scope is etched into the glass for minute of man, so no problem there.

Brownie

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Doc Holliday

I have a Norinco MAK-90 for this situation. She may be ugly, she may not be the most accurate, but she is an AK and if she's good enough for the third world, then by golly, she's good enough for me!

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Give Doc the shotgun.
They'll be less apt to get nervous if he's on the street howitzer.

Why, Johnny Ringo, you look like somebody just walked over your grave.

I have two guns, one for each of ya.

Ride4TheBrand

Never underestimate the uses of a good lever action rifle. I see nothing wrong with my Winchester model 94 30-30.

True, it might not meet the requirements of a cool "tactical' rifle, but I figure that the round is adequate for most needs.

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~ John F. Kennedy

AzQkr

Doc,

I gotta get me another AK. Have not had one for years but they are dependable, have enough juice and are easily maintained.

Brownie

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raevan

a good manually operated rifle such as a bolt action or a lever action will outlast any semiautomatic an down and dirty survival, 2 leveractions weigh a lot less then some semiautos or bolt guns of super acuracy. In a survival situation one needs to think of weight.
Where I live in the Pacific N.W. a gun that shoots 800 yds is really not necessary. If you are hiding and running then you will probably not be shooting game, you will use quieter methods. Any gunfire will anounce your presence to anyone around. Ammo will be in limited supply so you will want to save it only for the extrme emergency. I doubt if anyone 800 yds away would constitute an extreme emergency. Anyone that far away can be avoided with proper escape and evade techniques. 2 leveractions would be sufficient.

cagueits

I'm gona have to re-think the distance needs and decide if I really need a long range weapon. I still like the idea of having the capability to "reach out" if I needed.

At a minimum I think a semiauto is needed, in case you have to take care of more than one close range problem (the human kind) at that specific time.

I personally don't place cleaning kits on rifle stocks, had one fly off it after butt-stroking one of those bayonet training dummies. Besides, most carbine kits I've seen don't have a place to put them in.

I did like the .22 idea; maybe one of those USAF survival rifles that break down and a case of .22s in your rucksack will go a long way.

Any more comments?

AzQkr

All M1A's/m14's and garands have buttstock cleaning kits inside their buttstocks and will not be lost without losing the rifle.

Brownie

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ptmmatssc

i know we're talking about having just 2 weapons here , but for those of us that have many , what happened to the rest of em when the SHTF ? I thought about it and since my wife would be with me (as well as my daughter) I could give her my henry survival rifle and still hold on to my 2 weapons of choice . Heck , the survival rifle amd my keltec sub2000 both fit into my pack neatly with plenty of room to spare and they weigh diddly (4lbs for the keltec and not much more for the henry) . Lol , and my daughter can carry the ammo for us , just to spread the weight around a little more .