Reflex or holo sights on a rifle?

Bryan · October 20th, 2006, 09:22 AM

First: There seems to be some confusion as to whether a reflex sight is a holosight sight.
Is the aim point projected on the optic holo because it floats and has no post?
Or is it "not" because you don't have 2 cross hairs to line up?

Second: I am considering mounting one on an AK47. Does mounting it over the receiver (with a side mounted rail) have any advantages over mounting it far forward in the scout position?

Third: Does mounting the sight higher then the iron sight adversely effect range and impact height?

Fourth: There seems to be 3 main choices out there with many cheaper (knock offs?) replicas.
Upon examining the name brand and the cheaper one I can find no difference.
Are they all made in China or are the innards different?
I want to get the cheapest one without compromising quality.

Here are the pictures of the 3 I'm considering. From least expensive to most.

MattLarson · October 20th, 2006, 09:37 AM

I have an EoTech 512 on my AR, and really like it. Having it farther forward gives you a better field of view around the sight.

The cheaper variants may work well, but I doubt they would be anywhere near as durable as the EoTech.

The old adage holds - "Buy nice, or buy twice".

Matt

Rob72 · October 20th, 2006, 09:47 AM

Couple of other thoughts: Are you looking at the Ultimak mount, for your AK? Assuming so, and assuming that you'll be taking a "serious" class, and/or envision "serious" usage, I would get the most up-armored sight you can afford- or two mid-price range. Forward mounted optics tend to take more of a beating, as they naturally get stuck out, along with the barrel, versus receiver mounts, which we naturally keep closer to the core body and the instinctive "protective" envelope.

QKShooter · October 20th, 2006, 10:08 AM

No, a lighted or illuminated crosshair viewed on a "no magnification" or slightly magnified optical field is not the same as a true Holographic sighting system where the intended POI is optically projected out to the target.
The EOTech is a true Holographic sight.

Does mounting the sight higher then the iron sight adversely effect range and impact height? ~
In a word: No.

This would be the ideal location for the EOTech. Whatever gets you located right about there would be perfect.

MattLarson · October 20th, 2006, 10:12 AM

Mounting the optical sight higher than the irons does create a sight offset, which has to me taken into account for precision work up close.

At 7 yards, there is a ~2" difference in sight picture and POI.

A good pictorial explanation can be found here: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot18.htm

Matt

pgrass101 · October 20th, 2006, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob72

Couple of other thoughts: Are you looking at the Ultimak mount, for your AK?

Not meaning to hijack this but has anyone used a Ultimak on a M-1 carbine I saw were they make one and was thinking about getting one to update my carbine. I have never used a reflex sight and have no knowledge of them, you guys are giving me some great advice.

QKShooter · October 20th, 2006, 10:25 AM

Many of your questions will be throughly answered on the EOTech web site. Click here to go there.
Spend some time on that site and especially read some of the pdf articles. The SWAT Magazine article is particularly worthwhile.

JaredMcLaughlin · October 20th, 2006, 05:42 PM

If I had to do what you intend to do I would mount the EOtech low in the "scout" position. I can't see that going high or to the side as a "good" thing. Also, the EOTech model is made alot tougher than the other ones you are considering, and I've beat EOTech's to death. Might not be such a big deal on a range gun. I've noticed some suburban commando mall ninja types have an 'instant' mount for these that solves a problem I actually had, namely that the damn thing tends to wiggle loose over time. Once again, may not be an issue with a range only gun.

All that said, I turned my EOtech in destroyed and requested to not have another issued. I think the benefit of the technology is deliterious to proper marksmanship, and requested the young gentlemen under my direction no longer use theirs either. They are however excellent on belt fed machine guns. Unfortunately the guts don't stand up to that sort of pounding.

Bryan · October 20th, 2006, 11:18 PM

I'd love to have an EOtech but can't justify the $450 price (rifle cost $270). That's at least 4* more then the other 2 besides the ATN is almost an exact copy of the Cobra sight made for the AKM. I also found a gear guide version of the ant/cobra that is $50. Might be nice to play with but just might stick to iron sights. They make a nice peep sight and tritium front post also.

P95Carry · October 20th, 2006, 11:36 PM

Not rifle oriented but - have to say at (IIRC sale price of $169) my Bushnell Holosight on my BFR is stellar! I'd love to have one for my AK.

October 20th, 2006, 09:37 AM	#2
MattLarson Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Central Florida Posts: 2,311	I have an EoTech 512 on my AR, and really like it. Having it farther forward gives you a better field of view around the sight. The cheaper variants may work well, but I doubt they would be anywhere near as durable as the EoTech. The old adage holds - "Buy nice, or buy twice". Matt __________________ Hope is not a plan.

October 20th, 2006, 10:12 AM	#5
MattLarson Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Central Florida Posts: 2,311	Mounting the optical sight higher than the irons does create a sight offset, which has to me taken into account for precision work up close. At 7 yards, there is a ~2" difference in sight picture and POI. A good pictorial explanation can be found here: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot18.htm Matt __________________ Hope is not a plan.

October 20th, 2006, 11:18 PM	#9
Bryan Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 334	I'd love to have an EOtech but can't justify the $450 price (rifle cost $270). That's at least 4* more then the other 2 besides the ATN is almost an exact copy of the Cobra sight made for the AKM. I also found a gear guide version of the ant/cobra that is $50. Might be nice to play with but just might stick to iron sights. They make a nice peep sight and tritium front post also. __________________ -Diplomacy: The art of saying nice dogie until you can find a rock. -The truth is a three edged sword. -Your brain is your primary weapon everything else is just a tool. -When the only tool you have is a hammer then everything starts to look like a nail.

October 20th, 2006, 11:36 PM	#10
P95Carry Assistant Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: South West PA Posts: 25,339	Not rifle oriented but - have to say at (IIRC sale price of $169) my Bushnell Holosight on my BFR is stellar! I'd love to have one for my AK. __________________ Chris - P95 NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. "To own a gun and assume that you are armed is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!." If a BG dies as the result of pointing a gun at me, then he has merely succumbed to an occupational hazard of being a thug

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October 20th, 2006, 09:47 AM	#3
Rob72 VIP Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: OKC, OK Posts: 2,845	Couple of other thoughts: Are you looking at the Ultimak mount, for your AK? Assuming so, and assuming that you'll be taking a "serious" class, and/or envision "serious" usage, I would get the most up-armored sight you can afford- or two mid-price range. Forward mounted optics tend to take more of a beating, as they naturally get stuck out, along with the barrel, versus receiver mounts, which we naturally keep closer to the core body and the instinctive "protective" envelope.

October 20th, 2006, 10:08 AM	#4
QKShooter Assistant Administrator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Runthegun, USA Posts: 18,776	No, a lighted or illuminated crosshair viewed on a "no magnification" or slightly magnified optical field is not the same as a true Holographic sighting system where the intended POI is optically projected out to the target. The EOTech is a true Holographic sight. Does mounting the sight higher then the iron sight adversely effect range and impact height? ~ In a word: No. This would be the ideal location for the EOTech. Whatever gets you located right about there would be perfect.

October 20th, 2006, 10:25 AM	#7
QKShooter Assistant Administrator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Runthegun, USA Posts: 18,776	Many of your questions will be throughly answered on the EOTech web site. Click here to go there. Spend some time on that site and especially read some of the pdf articles. The SWAT Magazine article is particularly worthwhile.

October 20th, 2006, 05:42 PM	#8
JaredMcLaughlin Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 70	If I had to do what you intend to do I would mount the EOtech low in the "scout" position. I can't see that going high or to the side as a "good" thing. Also, the EOTech model is made alot tougher than the other ones you are considering, and I've beat EOTech's to death. Might not be such a big deal on a range gun. I've noticed some suburban commando mall ninja types have an 'instant' mount for these that solves a problem I actually had, namely that the damn thing tends to wiggle loose over time. Once again, may not be an issue with a range only gun. All that said, I turned my EOtech in destroyed and requested to not have another issued. I think the benefit of the technology is deliterious to proper marksmanship, and requested the young gentlemen under my direction no longer use theirs either. They are however excellent on belt fed machine guns. Unfortunately the guts don't stand up to that sort of pounding.