OD

Good enough? Yes, they have been since the 1860s (lever guns that is, not the 30/30).

They may not be as fast on the follow up shot as an auto, but you need to watch someone who is good with a levergun, they can be damned fast. They are faster at "topping off" the magazine though. The 30WCF cartridge is not a 50 or 100 yard only proposition, you can do some excellent longer range work with them IF you're a rifleman. Here's a cute article by a friend of mine who did some long range work at the Shootists Holiday.
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/ta...0longrange.htm

Another thing to research is the ballistics of the old 30-30 vis the 7.62x39, you may find it humorous.

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OD
"Slow down, you'll get a more harmonious outcome...."
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"The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." - Jeff Cooper

WorldPax

This is the exact subject I have spent the last 2-3 days researching. Here is what I have gathered, and my impressions of the facts.

1) Lever actions are only a tic or two slower than semi-autos.

2) Can be had in many useful calibers, but the 30-30's ballistics are almost identical to the ever-popular 7.62x39.

3) The new Leverevolution ammo extends the effective range of the 30-30. So well placed shots out to 300yrds are not out of the question.

4) If I was not snowed in, I would probably be out buying one today and giving it a try-out at deer-camp this weekend.

5) I have a feeling that the AR/AK guys are going to be very low on ammo very quickly if the SHTF. Not because there isn't a lot of it, but because the tendency will be to waste ammo because there is a lot of it and they can fire very quickly.

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Pax
Tulsa, OK

RSSZ

Who was it...?....Cooper IIRC,that said,"beware of a man that owns but one rifle,he probably knows how to use it."

This was said about a bolt or lever,NOT an auto.Timed,well placed shots will be the winner in the SHTF thing. Not keep 'em pinned down with a hail of fire,nor, spray and pray.

I'll engauge anyone that has an auto, with the lever built to my specs, at most any of the "truly reasonable ranges".

We're not talkin' sniper stuff here.-------

HotGuns

There ya have it in a nutshell.

Effective but slow.
and in a gunfight...slow is dead.

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AR. CHL Instr.

To achieve world government, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men, their individualism, loyalty to family traditions, national patriotism, and religious dogmas.'
Dr. G. Brock Chisolm

raevan

One hit is better then 20 misses. The lever action is less likely to jam then an AR. I t can be so dirty that the lever can hardly move but it will still function. I have known people who had leveractions that the only cleaning done on it was top run a patch through the bore after each hunting season, never cleaning any other part of the rifle.

I might concider buying an AK sometime, or if I can come up with the money an M1A. I can buy 3 lever action Marlins for the price of a cheap M1A.

In an emergency I will always grab a lever action first because of the dependability and lightness of the rifle, plus my ability to use it. I have had available and used lever actions since I was 12 yrs old.

If they had issue leveractions in Nam instead of that POS M16 there would be a lot of people still alive who died trying to clear jams.

AutoFan

As I remember, the 30-30 had superior ballistics to the 7.62x39 before all the new ammo came out for it.

And the bullets for a 30-30 aren't ball or non-expanding hollowpoints (like the 7.62x39) but honest to god hunting rounds designed to both expand and penetrate tissue.

For most shooters, the recovery time is dominated by reaquiring the target after the gun recoils, not how fast the action operates.

A 30-30 is going to be more limited in capacity, but no one ever complains about shotguns being equally limited.

Euclidean

The levergun is honestly the first iteration of the current day assault rifle (as in an actual assault rifle not a Klinton assault weapon). It was designed to toss a lot of lead quickly and to have a faster follow up shot. It works just as well now as it ever has.

There are a lot of people who can't afford or even have anything else besides all that.

If price is the issue however, the same $350+ some new leverguns cost gets you a Romak. Then again I cannot dare to deny the appeal, power, and utility of a modestly used thuddy thuddy at the $250 or less mark.

To me a big issue is where do you want to store it? Leverguns are thing and slender and go anywhere. An AK or AR is like a beer keg with 1000 different things sticking out of it at every conceivable angle.

My GHTF gun is my AR15 since I have all the replacement parts and can do all repairs in the field on it. But I do keep a repeater in my truck because it's not so expensive I'd be sad to lose it, and it's a darn site better than a pile of rocks.

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I am The Armed Educator.

CombatEffective

Many of the same techniques used to run a combat shotgun can be easily adapted to run a levergun.

I have an AK and an SKS, but I prefer my Marlin 336. I'm quite certain that it will be able to handle pretty much situation that I could find myself facing.

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Shooters' Legacy

Special sections for S&W and Ruger

Exodus

Pax's # 3 was going to be my main point. Check out Marlin's new XLR series of rifles: http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/xlr/default.aspx
They are designed to take full advantage of Hornady's Leverevolution ammo. It's a very sweet looking rifle too. I think the only thing an AK has over the lever guns is follow-up time and reloading time. This might make it unacceptable as a SHTF weapon. I guess it all depends of your skill level and shooting styles (not to mention requirements for a SHTF rifle). At any rate, I will be buying my first rifle early next year, and it will be a Marlin 336A. Not necessarily a SHTF weapon, but it will be a defensive weapon in addition to being a sporting rifle. The Winchester Repeating Rifle is the "gun that won the west". Even though technology has advanced, it is still an effective weapon. I hope my rambling has shed some light on the subject (or at least given you something to think about).

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I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.
- Jack Handey

SIC VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM.

Leadslinger

I'll keep this simple ..............

It ain't the gun,
It's the man behind it that counts.

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A LTTLE TRAINING IS A DANGEROUS THING ....