AK 7.62x39 -- which one for utter reliability, simplicity, lower cost

ccw9mm · December 21st, 2006, 11:36 PM

Am considering an AK in 7.62x39. Am very interested in your opinions on pros/cons of the various alternatives out there. Goals are, in order of importance: reliability, first and foremost; simplicity; low to medium cost. Would like to hear rationale of a given mfr/brand over another. Have been to ar15.com and waded through a couple years' worth of posts.

For a first-time buyer of an AK with the above goals, what would you recommend ... and why?

- Michael

p8riot · December 21st, 2006, 11:52 PM

Well if you are going for low cost, I have found the Romanians to be about the lowest cost, and of those the SAR-1 to be a little better quality than the WASR-10. They are both stamped receiver models, and are a little lighter than the more expensive milled receiver models. The AK is a simple weapon no matter what configuration (milled or stamped). Moving up in quality and in price are the Chinese Norinco models.

A lot of folks here swear by the milled receiver models, I'll stick with the less expensive stamped receiver models. I have had several AKs and currently own two Romanian SAR-1s that I like for the purpose I bought them, fun to shoot, and a reliable SHTF weapon should the time ever come.

Longbow · December 22nd, 2006, 12:03 AM

Hi ya ccw9mm
The AK 47 is the most reliable and bullet prof rifle you can buy, There is a reason it is the most popular and must manufactured rifle by more countries then any other rifle in existence.
For an entry level AK I would recommend a Romanian WASR10, $350.00 or so, they are built here in the US on Romanian receivers and are 922r compliant. that means they have the right amount of US parts to make them perfectly legal for a post ban AK.
The WASR10 is not the best built AK out there but for the money you really can't go wrong. They are very reliable. I have about 1500 rnds through mine with no receiver related FTF or FTE. Things to look for on the Romanians are, canted front sites and rough finish on internal stamped parts. Keep your eyes open for a good clean one (most of them are) and you really can't go wrong. They will come with everything you need, Two 30rnd mags, sling, mag pouch and so on.
If you want to step up a little in price a nice Yugo under-folder is cool in the $550.00 range. But stay away from the century receivers.
This forum here is the best for AK, these guys are experts. Here a picture of my Romanian and my Norinco early preban.

Rob72 · December 22nd, 2006, 11:35 AM

Are you handy with a Dremel tool? If so, you can buy a WASR-10, and (assuming local law allows) open the mag well up, to accept hi-caps, in about 20-30 minutes. I paid $312 OTD for mine.
www.warriortalk.com has a good Kalashnikov forum, with practical suggestions. Jim Fuller is a great mechanics/builder resource (on WT).
AR-15.com also has a decent AK forum, but a bit juvenile for me to hangout with- I go there to search specific topics.

FYI- "Best built" is really a relative term. Unless you spend $500+, you will want to take any of them apart, and remove some filings/machine marks. Ironically, my Romy G parts kit was better finished than the commercial WASR-10. The great thing about the AK is that you won't feel bad taking some 320 grit to sharp edges, them degreasing, and shooting it with Krylon or Rustoleum. If you intent it to be a "go-to" carbine, spend the time to make sure you don't have any sharp-n-pointies that will get you during handling.

ccw9mm · December 22nd, 2006, 10:56 PM

What about the Saiga? There are some vendors with the "Russian American Armory Saiga Sporter" in 7.62x39, 16" bbl, either with fixed stock or skeletonized stock. Gilberts Guns in KY is one.

The AK-104 type, such as the Saiga MK, is one that interests me (in terms of size, format).

A carbine style is preferable. < 18" bbl max.

$ Cap: $500 or so, plus magazines beyond that.

There seem to be so many opinions about the various manufacturers, it's hard to know what's quality vs. not.

Am not handy with machining. Would likely have a decent gunsmith get it "right" and good-to-go. Am not handy with machining or anything beyond the basics, hence the "utterly reliable" requirement. Though, I fully realize a general clean-up and polishing helps any gun. Prepared for that.

wilson133 · December 24th, 2006, 07:10 AM

If the 10 round capacity is sufficient, the Dunham's chain has WASR Dragonovs for about $200 when on sale. The high caps run about $300 on sale. An outfit called Midwest Ordinance shows up at local guns shows with high caps for $300 also. I believe they have a retail store in Royal Oak.

Team American · December 24th, 2006, 08:01 AM

I have 2 AK-47's: a Romanian WASR-10 and a Vector Arms. The WASR rifle was made during the assault weapon ban era to accept 10 round magazines, and then milled out after the ban expired to accept 30 round mags. I've found the rifle to be extremely reliable, but it has a problem with "trigger slap" even after a trigger job, and the fit and finish of the rifle leaves a lot to be desired.

The Vector rifle was assembled by Vector from either a Polish or Hungarian kit, and I believe it's far superior to the Romanian. Fit and finish are excellent, and it's been completely reliable after several thousand rounds. This photo is my Vector:

Just my opinion, but the Vector is a better rifle for a couple of reasons. As stated, the fit and finish is vastly superior to the Romanian, and Vector Arms stands behind their rifles with an excellent 5 year warranty. The rifle was manufactured to accept 30 round mags, not milled out as an after thought, and magazine changes are much smoother.

The real kicker is the price: the WASR rifles are priced at around $325 (using J&G Sales as an example), and they really need a new trigger assembly (I think the company that makes the kits is called Star) for about $80 bucks. I got a straight wood stock AK from Vector for $500, and couldn't be happier. YMMV, but here's a link to their website:

http://www.vectorarms.com/indexframe.html

Justin · December 24th, 2006, 02:26 PM

Lancaster Consulting out of Phoenix, AZ makes a great AK.

Atlantic-Firearms said on ARFCOM that it;s a great rifle for fit and finish, and it has a LIFETIME warranty.

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/prog...asp?Prodid=274

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/prog...asp?Prodid=275

Justin · December 24th, 2006, 02:27 PM

ARFCOM thread on the Lancaster

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=91853

ccw9mm · January 2nd, 2007, 09:27 AM

Question: Has anyone found a decent AK upper for left-handed shooters?

As a lefty, I'd prefer the controls and ejection swapped. Ambidextrous firing selector/safety can work, but there are no "lefty" uppers that I know of.

Have been considering AR's as well, and Stag makes a "lefty" variant of their upper. I've got my gunsmith/shop quoting on a build, to see how it stacks up. (Obviously, the larger decisions are: lefty, 7.62 vs 5.56, reliability.)

December 21st, 2006, 11:36 PM	#1
ccw9mm VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Oregon USA Posts: 6,197	AK 7.62x39 -- which one for utter reliability, simplicity, lower cost Am considering an AK in 7.62x39. Am very interested in your opinions on pros/cons of the various alternatives out there. Goals are, in order of importance: reliability, first and foremost; simplicity; low to medium cost. Would like to hear rationale of a given mfr/brand over another. Have been to ar15.com and waded through a couple years' worth of posts. For a first-time buyer of an AK with the above goals, what would you recommend ... and why? - Michael __________________ Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it. Reports: CZ P01 pt1, pt2. Thoughts: Justifiable self defense. Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims? Tip: Use the <search> feature.

December 21st, 2006, 11:52 PM	#2
p8riot Distinguished Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Chesterfield, VA Posts: 1,948	Well if you are going for low cost, I have found the Romanians to be about the lowest cost, and of those the SAR-1 to be a little better quality than the WASR-10. They are both stamped receiver models, and are a little lighter than the more expensive milled receiver models. The AK is a simple weapon no matter what configuration (milled or stamped). Moving up in quality and in price are the Chinese Norinco models. A lot of folks here swear by the milled receiver models, I'll stick with the less expensive stamped receiver models. I have had several AKs and currently own two Romanian SAR-1s that I like for the purpose I bought them, fun to shoot, and a reliable SHTF weapon should the time ever come. __________________ "You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone The second amendment is the reset button of our Constitution.

December 22nd, 2006, 12:03 AM	#3
Longbow Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Montana, USA Posts: 270	Hi ya ccw9mm The AK 47 is the most reliable and bullet prof rifle you can buy, There is a reason it is the most popular and must manufactured rifle by more countries then any other rifle in existence. For an entry level AK I would recommend a Romanian WASR10, $350.00 or so, they are built here in the US on Romanian receivers and are 922r compliant. that means they have the right amount of US parts to make them perfectly legal for a post ban AK. The WASR10 is not the best built AK out there but for the money you really can't go wrong. They are very reliable. I have about 1500 rnds through mine with no receiver related FTF or FTE. Things to look for on the Romanians are, canted front sites and rough finish on internal stamped parts. Keep your eyes open for a good clean one (most of them are) and you really can't go wrong. They will come with everything you need, Two 30rnd mags, sling, mag pouch and so on. If you want to step up a little in price a nice Yugo under-folder is cool in the $550.00 range. But stay away from the century receivers. This forum here is the best for AK, these guys are experts. Here a picture of my Romanian and my Norinco early preban. __________________ "Planning to draw and chamber a round after TSHTF is like planning to fasten your seatbelt after you see the other guy run a stopsign..." Professional hand engraver. To see full picture of knife in Avatar click here Last edited by Longbow; December 22nd, 2006 at 12:08 AM.. Reason: Spelling

December 22nd, 2006, 10:56 PM	#5
ccw9mm VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Oregon USA Posts: 6,197	What about the Saiga? There are some vendors with the "Russian American Armory Saiga Sporter" in 7.62x39, 16" bbl, either with fixed stock or skeletonized stock. Gilberts Guns in KY is one. The AK-104 type, such as the Saiga MK, is one that interests me (in terms of size, format). A carbine style is preferable. < 18" bbl max. $ Cap: $500 or so, plus magazines beyond that. There seem to be so many opinions about the various manufacturers, it's hard to know what's quality vs. not. Am not handy with machining. Would likely have a decent gunsmith get it "right" and good-to-go. Am not handy with machining or anything beyond the basics, hence the "utterly reliable" requirement. Though, I fully realize a general clean-up and polishing helps any gun. Prepared for that. __________________ Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it. Reports: CZ P01 pt1, pt2. Thoughts: Justifiable self defense. Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims? Tip: Use the <search> feature.

December 24th, 2006, 08:01 AM	#7
Team American VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,797	I have 2 AK-47's: a Romanian WASR-10 and a Vector Arms. The WASR rifle was made during the assault weapon ban era to accept 10 round magazines, and then milled out after the ban expired to accept 30 round mags. I've found the rifle to be extremely reliable, but it has a problem with "trigger slap" even after a trigger job, and the fit and finish of the rifle leaves a lot to be desired. The Vector rifle was assembled by Vector from either a Polish or Hungarian kit, and I believe it's far superior to the Romanian. Fit and finish are excellent, and it's been completely reliable after several thousand rounds. This photo is my Vector: Just my opinion, but the Vector is a better rifle for a couple of reasons. As stated, the fit and finish is vastly superior to the Romanian, and Vector Arms stands behind their rifles with an excellent 5 year warranty. The rifle was manufactured to accept 30 round mags, not milled out as an after thought, and magazine changes are much smoother. The real kicker is the price: the WASR rifles are priced at around $325 (using J&G Sales as an example), and they really need a new trigger assembly (I think the company that makes the kits is called Star) for about $80 bucks. I got a straight wood stock AK from Vector for $500, and couldn't be happier. YMMV, but here's a link to their website: http://www.vectorarms.com/indexframe.html __________________ "I surrounded 'em"- Alvin York "They're ain't many troubles that a man can't fix with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six"- Jeff Cooper

December 22nd, 2006, 11:35 AM	#4
Rob72 VIP Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: OKC, OK Posts: 3,112	Are you handy with a Dremel tool? If so, you can buy a WASR-10, and (assuming local law allows) open the mag well up, to accept hi-caps, in about 20-30 minutes. I paid $312 OTD for mine. www.warriortalk.com has a good Kalashnikov forum, with practical suggestions. Jim Fuller is a great mechanics/builder resource (on WT). AR-15.com also has a decent AK forum, but a bit juvenile for me to hangout with- I go there to search specific topics. FYI- "Best built" is really a relative term. Unless you spend $500+, you will want to take any of them apart, and remove some filings/machine marks. Ironically, my Romy G parts kit was better finished than the commercial WASR-10. The great thing about the AK is that you won't feel bad taking some 320 grit to sharp edges, them degreasing, and shooting it with Krylon or Rustoleum. If you intent it to be a "go-to" carbine, spend the time to make sure you don't have any sharp-n-pointies that will get you during handling.

December 24th, 2006, 07:10 AM	#6
wilson133 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 16	If the 10 round capacity is sufficient, the Dunham's chain has WASR Dragonovs for about $200 when on sale. The high caps run about $300 on sale. An outfit called Midwest Ordinance shows up at local guns shows with high caps for $300 also. I believe they have a retail store in Royal Oak.

December 24th, 2006, 02:26 PM	#8
Justin Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Western PA Posts: 289	Lancaster Consulting out of Phoenix, AZ makes a great AK. Atlantic-Firearms said on ARFCOM that it;s a great rifle for fit and finish, and it has a LIFETIME warranty. http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/prog...asp?Prodid=274 http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/prog...asp?Prodid=275 __________________ - Justin Do No Harm. Do Know Harm. + Vita Quod Nex + God grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot shoot, courage to shoot the people I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

December 24th, 2006, 02:27 PM	#9
Justin Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Western PA Posts: 289	ARFCOM thread on the Lancaster http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=91853 __________________ - Justin Do No Harm. Do Know Harm. + Vita Quod Nex + God grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot shoot, courage to shoot the people I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

January 2nd, 2007, 09:27 AM	#10
ccw9mm VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Oregon USA Posts: 6,197	Question: Has anyone found a decent AK upper for left-handed shooters? As a lefty, I'd prefer the controls and ejection swapped. Ambidextrous firing selector/safety can work, but there are no "lefty" uppers that I know of. Have been considering AR's as well, and Stag makes a "lefty" variant of their upper. I've got my gunsmith/shop quoting on a build, to see how it stacks up. (Obviously, the larger decisions are: lefty, 7.62 vs 5.56, reliability.) __________________ Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it. Reports: CZ P01 pt1, pt2. Thoughts: Justifiable self defense. Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims? Tip: Use the <search> feature.

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