AR 15 Opinions/Experiences Please - Page 3

ShackleMeNot · January 4th, 2007, 02:03 PM

Guns I see do well in classes:
- Bushmaster (make sure your gas key is properly staked)
- RRA
- Colt

Home-builts and Frankenguns almost universally have problems. Most don’t make it through the first day of class. In my opinion your first gun should come from a quality manufacturer as a complete rifle.

echo5tango · January 4th, 2007, 03:48 PM

the only problem with colts is their use of different sized pins. other than that, stick with a big name brand, and you'll do fine. i'll say the absolute best lower is probably LMT. uppers are a personal and mission-tailored choice.

of course, i just sold my ar-15 ... they are nice but over-priced (i had about $1400 tied up in it and in retrospect feel that was WAY too much). i'm going to be picking up a decent AK or two in the next year

Ryno23 · January 4th, 2007, 10:58 PM

Thanks for all the good imput boys, especially on the difference of wear and tear on the composite vs aluminum (thanks Rocky). That's what I was looking for and I didn't think anyone was hijacking - discussion and sharing opinions and ideas is a good thing - keep it coming. I think I'm leaning towards putting one together myself to save a few bucks but mostly to learn the hows and whys of an AR. Have found a chrome lined RRA complete upper for less than $500 and have seen complete and stripped lowers feom various manufacturers for $250 on down. When I started this thread I was pretty much thinking of a Bushmaster Patrolman, now I may go with the home team - I grew up less than 10 miles from RRA and actually visited the factory last summer. More info/opinions welcomed!

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

SIXTO · January 4th, 2007, 11:07 PM

Glad to see your making some headway on the process.... I can't say enough good things about RRA. I just ditched Bushmaster for the dept. order I mentioned before and went with RRA.

A word of caution when building your own... you wont save much money at all, maybe even end up costing you more. You will run into pieces parts you are not thinking of, something will need adjusted, or you will want to change this and that. It is a fun thing to do though, it just can be a slippery slope.
Also, if you ever need to sell the gun it wont be worth near what you got in it.
I dont want to discourage you, just know what your getting into.

Ryno23 · January 4th, 2007, 11:11 PM

ShackleMeNot, that's a very telling piece of info - thanks much - I was looking at a complete RRA chrome lined upper (charging handle and all) and a complete lower with 6 pos stock for less than $750 - but ......

XD 45 ACP Service model, SiG P226 9mm and SiG P229 9mm

rocky · January 4th, 2007, 11:14 PM

If you decide to go with a build gun, try to find a full kit. Less chance of having to do as much tuning. Tons of tuning info on AR15.com if you like that sort of thing though.

Ryno23 · January 4th, 2007, 11:22 PM

Sixto - AMEN to that brother! I am getting vision of that slippery slope and now here comes some Pennsoil! Do you think combining a "complete" upper to a "complete lower" seems to plane that slippery slope a bit or accelerate it?

... that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. A. Lincoln

SIXTO · January 4th, 2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryno23

Sixto - AMEN to that brother! I am getting vision of that slippery slope and now here comes some Pennsoil! Do you think combining a "complete" upper to a "complete lower" seems to plane that slippery slope a bit or accelerate it?

... that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. A. Lincoln

Yes, it will be easier to mate a complete lower and complete upper, but who knows if it will end up right. shacklemenot's post is very true, frankenguns rarely work right unless the builder is lucky, skilled or paid a good smith to put it together.

Even if you do get lucky or are skilled, who is going to fix your gun when it does not run right? You cant send it off to RRA, Bushmaster or anyone else. You have to pay a smith who may or may not be able to fix it. You might be trying to save a few bucks, but you havent saved a dime if you have to buy your AR twice.

rocky · January 4th, 2007, 11:44 PM

My buddy had a Bushie M-4 worked fine. He traded out the upper for a different brand, cause he didn't like the muzzle brake and carry handle.
Since then we have had to fix it from FTF , ect 3-4 seperate times on the range. For a range gun, not serious work, this isn't a big deal. Relying on it to defend your self is another matter.

Hobbes · January 4th, 2007, 11:52 PM

My opinion is that builds get screwed up because people use shoddy parts. I have build 3 ARs using quality parts and all run as I expect them to. Of course maybe I am just lucky....

A few words on RRA- I did some searching around today and found a few things out-
Most are good, but inspect 2 things before you buy:
1. Gas keys improperly staked- be sure where the key is staked, that the key material is actually staked to the screw. If the metal isn't contacting the screw, it will back out eventually.
2. uneven crappy dremeled M4 feed ramps. Check them out, if they look bad, check out another rifle. It probably won't effect functioning either way but I would expect this to not happen on a $1k rifle you know?
RRA are by and large great, but they are known to have these problems sometimes. (actually, you should check these things on all bolt carriers and feed ramps)

January 4th, 2007, 02:03 PM	#21
ShackleMeNot Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Indy Posts: 117	Guns I see do well in classes: - Bushmaster (make sure your gas key is properly staked) - RRA - Colt Home-builts and Frankenguns almost universally have problems. Most don’t make it through the first day of class. In my opinion your first gun should come from a quality manufacturer as a complete rifle. __________________ Shay Van Vlymen - Instructor Tactical Response

January 4th, 2007, 11:14 PM	#26
rocky Senior Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MI Posts: 12,060	If you decide to go with a build gun, try to find a full kit. Less chance of having to do as much tuning. Tons of tuning info on AR15.com if you like that sort of thing though. __________________ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson Nemo Me Impune Lacesset Link to my kydex builds:http://rocknloadkydex.blogspot.com/

January 4th, 2007, 11:44 PM	#29
rocky Senior Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MI Posts: 12,060	My buddy had a Bushie M-4 worked fine. He traded out the upper for a different brand, cause he didn't like the muzzle brake and carry handle. Since then we have had to fix it from FTF , ect 3-4 seperate times on the range. For a range gun, not serious work, this isn't a big deal. Relying on it to defend your self is another matter. __________________ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson Nemo Me Impune Lacesset Link to my kydex builds:http://rocknloadkydex.blogspot.com/

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January 4th, 2007, 03:48 PM	#22
echo5tango Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: NOLA Posts: 275	the only problem with colts is their use of different sized pins. other than that, stick with a big name brand, and you'll do fine. i'll say the absolute best lower is probably LMT. uppers are a personal and mission-tailored choice. of course, i just sold my ar-15 ... they are nice but over-priced (i had about $1400 tied up in it and in retrospect feel that was WAY too much). i'm going to be picking up a decent AK or two in the next year

January 4th, 2007, 10:58 PM	#23
Ryno23 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 21	Thanks for all the good imput boys, especially on the difference of wear and tear on the composite vs aluminum (thanks Rocky). That's what I was looking for and I didn't think anyone was hijacking - discussion and sharing opinions and ideas is a good thing - keep it coming. I think I'm leaning towards putting one together myself to save a few bucks but mostly to learn the hows and whys of an AR. Have found a chrome lined RRA complete upper for less than $500 and have seen complete and stripped lowers feom various manufacturers for $250 on down. When I started this thread I was pretty much thinking of a Bushmaster Patrolman, now I may go with the home team - I grew up less than 10 miles from RRA and actually visited the factory last summer. More info/opinions welcomed! "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

January 4th, 2007, 11:07 PM	#24
SIXTO VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Here and There Posts: 10,436	Glad to see your making some headway on the process.... I can't say enough good things about RRA. I just ditched Bushmaster for the dept. order I mentioned before and went with RRA. A word of caution when building your own... you wont save much money at all, maybe even end up costing you more. You will run into pieces parts you are not thinking of, something will need adjusted, or you will want to change this and that. It is a fun thing to do though, it just can be a slippery slope. Also, if you ever need to sell the gun it wont be worth near what you got in it. I dont want to discourage you, just know what your getting into.

January 4th, 2007, 11:11 PM	#25
Ryno23 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 21	ShackleMeNot, that's a very telling piece of info - thanks much - I was looking at a complete RRA chrome lined upper (charging handle and all) and a complete lower with 6 pos stock for less than $750 - but ...... XD 45 ACP Service model, SiG P226 9mm and SiG P229 9mm

January 4th, 2007, 11:22 PM	#27
Ryno23 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 21	Sixto - AMEN to that brother! I am getting vision of that slippery slope and now here comes some Pennsoil! Do you think combining a "complete" upper to a "complete lower" seems to plane that slippery slope a bit or accelerate it? ... that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. A. Lincoln

January 4th, 2007, 11:52 PM	#30
Hobbes Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Centralia, VA Posts: 384	My opinion is that builds get screwed up because people use shoddy parts. I have build 3 ARs using quality parts and all run as I expect them to. Of course maybe I am just lucky.... A few words on RRA- I did some searching around today and found a few things out- Most are good, but inspect 2 things before you buy: 1. Gas keys improperly staked- be sure where the key is staked, that the key material is actually staked to the screw. If the metal isn't contacting the screw, it will back out eventually. 2. uneven crappy dremeled M4 feed ramps. Check them out, if they look bad, check out another rifle. It probably won't effect functioning either way but I would expect this to not happen on a $1k rifle you know? RRA are by and large great, but they are known to have these problems sometimes. (actually, you should check these things on all bolt carriers and feed ramps)