AR 15 Opinions/Experiences Please - Page 6

Tubby45 · January 9th, 2007, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackeagle

Both the BAR and Garand are piston operated weapons.

I thought the tube under the BAR's barrel housed the gas tube and didn't have a piston?

ccw9mm · January 9th, 2007, 11:43 AM

My apologies to the O.P. for opening up a "gas" discussion. Didn't mean to derail the discussion. If interested, feel free to comment further on this thread, specifically covering Gas Impingement vs. Gas Piston Systems.

Blackeagle · January 9th, 2007, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freakshow10mm

I thought the tube under the BAR's barrel housed the gas tube and didn't have a piston?

Well, according to Modern Firearms, the BAR is a piston operated design. My Encyclopedia of Infantry Weapons of World War II says the same thing, so I'm pretty sure it's a piston gun.

Tubby45 · January 10th, 2007, 11:06 AM

I did not know that. Thanks.

LenS · January 10th, 2007, 01:21 PM

When the Carbon AR came out I hefted one in my favorite gun shop, read a lot about them . . . and came to the conclusion that it was NOT wise to give them serious consideration.

If that was such a good design, the mfr wouldn't have gone under and sold the rights to Bushie!

The saying used to be "ABC" and you couldn't go wrong (Armalite, Bushmaster and Colt) but today you have to add Rock River to that list. They are great guns for an excellent price. This is all about reliability and workmanship.

Stay AWAY from Olympic at all costs! All reports are that their quality control sucks!

I would definitely go for a chrome-lined barrel and standard aluminum (?) framed gun from the above mfrs.

Colt is very pricey but not really any better than any of the other 3 mfrs listed above for quality. They also no longer cater to the civilian market.

Ryno23 · January 23rd, 2007, 12:30 AM

Great info and thanks to all for posting their experiences and opinions. Thanks to the USMC expert shooter that helped me decide on a Bushmaster A3M4 (14.5 barrel w/the Izzy flash suppressor).

"The tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

"There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men." Edmund Burke

cphilip · January 23rd, 2007, 01:11 PM

Being as how you broached the subject of 14.5 barrels

Is there really any reason to go 14.5 for a civilian rifle? Because BATFE makes you put a long extention on it to make it 16" anyway do they not? And if that is correct, why not get the longer 16" barrel? This gives you a bit more velocity and stability. Same sighting distance I suppose. But I decided I did not see anything but a slight disadvantage to going shorter than a 16". For the above reasons. Is my logic flawed?

Hobbes · January 23rd, 2007, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cphilip

Being as how you broached the subject of 14.5 barrels

Is there really any reason to go 14.5 for a civilian rifle? Because BATFE makes you put a long extention on it to make it 16" anyway do they not? And if that is correct, why not get the longer 16" barrel? This gives you a bit more velocity and stability. Same sighting distance I suppose. But I decided I did not see anything but a slight disadvantage to going shorter than a 16". For the above reasons. Is my logic flawed?

No, your logic is good. There are a couple advantages to the 14.5" though-
1. OAL with a pinned & welded FH is 16.1" while a 16" bbl plus A2 FH is over 17". Not a big deal for most, but it does look weird to some. It just looks a bit disproportionate.
2. The overall shorter bbl may also be just a bit handier indoors. Again, the difference is only a bit over an inch though.

I went with the 14.5" so I can SBR it down the road someday.
Personally, I think the best of both worlds is a 16" bbl with midlength gas system. It has a longer sight radius, longer gas pulse resulting is a less sharp felt recoil, looks more proportionate (subjective of course).

cphilip · January 24th, 2007, 01:06 PM

Here is something a friend sent me. Might be interesting. Have not researched it too much for accuracy.

The AR is a little different beastie to sight in than other rifles---

1) Level the top of the base of the front sight post, with the flat area of the front sight tower. It should look like the post rises from the tower itself.

2) Rotate the rear peep sight so the "L" does not show (you should be looking through the larger aperture). Using a cartridge, nail, small drift punch, or small pin punch (or the special M16 sight tool), run the rear sight adjuster all the way to the left. Now run it all the way to the right---COUNTING HOW MANY CLICKS IT TAKES---. Now run it left again exactly HALF the total number.

You are now at mechanical zero.

3) Set up a 25yd target (yes, 25yds). Use a 2" bull, and hold front sight at 6 O'clock on bull. Fire 3 rounds. If on paper, measure how far up/down or left/right you are from the center of the 2" bull.

4) Take your measure and multiply by 5. This will give you how many rear sight clicks for azimuth, and how many front sight notches for elevation (screwing the front sight DOWN will RAISE the point of impact, and visa-versa) Move the rear sight in the direction you want the impact to move (hitting left of bull, move rear sight right)

5) Fire 3 shots at a time to adjust impacts untill all fall as near center of bull as possible.

6) Move front sight DOWN 2 notches (impact will now fall into the upper half of the 2" bull). This will give you the elevation needed for aimed fire out to 300yds.

AR15/M16 sights are NOT intended to be moved after initial sight in. To achieve better long range accuracy, flip rear sight peep to view through the smaller aperture, or "L" peep.

SIGHTING IN THE A2:::

1) Mechanical zero the same as the A1. Make sure the rear assembly is all the way down, and the "8/3" flat is directly left. Rotate the elevation drum FORWARD one click (flat will be facing slightly forward).

2) Fire your 3 rounds and measure. The A2 is multiplied by 4. DO NOT ADJUST ELEVATION WITH THE REAR SIGHT, MOVE THE FRONT SIGHT ONLY! When centered, again give front sight 2 clicks down. Move the rear drum BACK one click so the flat is once again facing left.

3) The rear elevation drum is a BULLET DROP COMPENSATOR, not an adjuster. When shooting to or past 400yds, move the drum to #4 (400yds). If farther, move drum to corresponding number...out to 800yds. The numbers on the drum are yardage marks.

Doc Holliday · February 12th, 2007, 08:45 PM

I had a Colt H-Bar about 8 years ago. It ate up factory ammo but it jammed on the cheap surplus stuff.

January 9th, 2007, 11:43 AM	#52
ccw9mm VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Oregon USA Posts: 6,197	My apologies to the O.P. for opening up a "gas" discussion. Didn't mean to derail the discussion. If interested, feel free to comment further on this thread, specifically covering Gas Impingement vs. Gas Piston Systems. __________________ Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it. Reports: CZ P01 pt1, pt2. Thoughts: Justifiable self defense. Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims? Tip: Use the <search> feature.

January 10th, 2007, 11:06 AM	#54
Tubby45 Distinguished Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: In the reloading room Posts: 1,988	I did not know that. Thanks. __________________ Freakshow Manufacturing LLC "You can kill it. We can help." 07 FFL/ 02 SOT

January 23rd, 2007, 12:30 AM	#56
Ryno23 Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 21	Great info and thanks to all for posting their experiences and opinions. Thanks to the USMC expert shooter that helped me decide on a Bushmaster A3M4 (14.5 barrel w/the Izzy flash suppressor). "The tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson "There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men." Edmund Burke Last edited by Ryno23; January 23rd, 2007 at 12:31 AM.. Reason: Grammar

January 23rd, 2007, 01:11 PM	#57
cphilip Distinguished Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,447	Being as how you broached the subject of 14.5 barrels Is there really any reason to go 14.5 for a civilian rifle? Because BATFE makes you put a long extention on it to make it 16" anyway do they not? And if that is correct, why not get the longer 16" barrel? This gives you a bit more velocity and stability. Same sighting distance I suppose. But I decided I did not see anything but a slight disadvantage to going shorter than a 16". For the above reasons. Is my logic flawed? __________________ www.cphilip.com

January 24th, 2007, 01:06 PM	#59
cphilip Distinguished Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,447	Here is something a friend sent me. Might be interesting. Have not researched it too much for accuracy. The AR is a little different beastie to sight in than other rifles--- 1) Level the top of the base of the front sight post, with the flat area of the front sight tower. It should look like the post rises from the tower itself. 2) Rotate the rear peep sight so the "L" does not show (you should be looking through the larger aperture). Using a cartridge, nail, small drift punch, or small pin punch (or the special M16 sight tool), run the rear sight adjuster all the way to the left. Now run it all the way to the right---COUNTING HOW MANY CLICKS IT TAKES---. Now run it left again exactly HALF the total number. You are now at mechanical zero. 3) Set up a 25yd target (yes, 25yds). Use a 2" bull, and hold front sight at 6 O'clock on bull. Fire 3 rounds. If on paper, measure how far up/down or left/right you are from the center of the 2" bull. 4) Take your measure and multiply by 5. This will give you how many rear sight clicks for azimuth, and how many front sight notches for elevation (screwing the front sight DOWN will RAISE the point of impact, and visa-versa) Move the rear sight in the direction you want the impact to move (hitting left of bull, move rear sight right) 5) Fire 3 shots at a time to adjust impacts untill all fall as near center of bull as possible. 6) Move front sight DOWN 2 notches (impact will now fall into the upper half of the 2" bull). This will give you the elevation needed for aimed fire out to 300yds. AR15/M16 sights are NOT intended to be moved after initial sight in. To achieve better long range accuracy, flip rear sight peep to view through the smaller aperture, or "L" peep. SIGHTING IN THE A2::: 1) Mechanical zero the same as the A1. Make sure the rear assembly is all the way down, and the "8/3" flat is directly left. Rotate the elevation drum FORWARD one click (flat will be facing slightly forward). 2) Fire your 3 rounds and measure. The A2 is multiplied by 4. DO NOT ADJUST ELEVATION WITH THE REAR SIGHT, MOVE THE FRONT SIGHT ONLY! When centered, again give front sight 2 clicks down. Move the rear drum BACK one click so the flat is once again facing left. 3) The rear elevation drum is a BULLET DROP COMPENSATOR, not an adjuster. When shooting to or past 400yds, move the drum to #4 (400yds). If farther, move drum to corresponding number...out to 800yds. The numbers on the drum are yardage marks. __________________ www.cphilip.com

January 10th, 2007, 01:21 PM	#55
LenS Distinguished Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: US Posts: 1,348	When the Carbon AR came out I hefted one in my favorite gun shop, read a lot about them . . . and came to the conclusion that it was NOT wise to give them serious consideration. If that was such a good design, the mfr wouldn't have gone under and sold the rights to Bushie! The saying used to be "ABC" and you couldn't go wrong (Armalite, Bushmaster and Colt) but today you have to add Rock River to that list. They are great guns for an excellent price. This is all about reliability and workmanship. Stay AWAY from Olympic at all costs! All reports are that their quality control sucks! I would definitely go for a chrome-lined barrel and standard aluminum (?) framed gun from the above mfrs. Colt is very pricey but not really any better than any of the other 3 mfrs listed above for quality. They also no longer cater to the civilian market.

February 12th, 2007, 08:45 PM	#60
Doc Holliday Distinguished Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,353	I had a Colt H-Bar about 8 years ago. It ate up factory ammo but it jammed on the cheap surplus stuff. __________________ Give Doc the shotgun. They'll be less apt to get nervous if he's on the street howitzer. Why, Johnny Ringo, you look like somebody just walked over your grave. I have two guns, one for each of ya.

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