Going to look at two Bushmasters - input needed

cphilip · January 12th, 2007, 09:29 PM

Choice #1 - E2S A1 M4 Type Carbine - $815

Choice #2 - E2SLE O.R.C. (Optics Ready Carbine) - $869

Both prices before 5% sales tax, but no additional FFL fee as it's local sale from FFL shop to me. Face to face.

Kind of leaning to Choice 1 because of carry handle and A1 sight that is on it and I do not think I am going Optics of any kind and Choice 2 would sort of force me that way immediately from what I can see. I assume the LE in the model is Law Enforcement but I assume thats for the optics ready upper only. I don't see much besides the mounts on top for optics different in either of the specs.

They both have 6 position stock, Forward Assist Brass Deflector, 16" Crome Lined M4 barrel, Birdcage flash suppressor, 30 round Mag, Case and Sling. Both Matte Black finish. Seem identical except sights to me.

What say you on these two and the price ranges?

rocky · January 12th, 2007, 09:41 PM

I like the option of optics mounting. You could put a scope or dot on or off. But then you would probably want a Iron rear sight too. Carry handle optic mounts are ackward IMO.

SIXTO · January 13th, 2007, 12:04 AM

I'd go with #2 as well, it gives you more options. If you want a carry handle, you can buy one to mount on the upper for 50-60 dollars.

If you are absolute that you dont want any sort of optics #1 would be OK. There are options for mounting on a #1 as well.

srfl · January 13th, 2007, 12:36 AM

I saw the ORC today at the Bushmaster booth at the SHOT Show.

If you know that you won't need or want any backup iron sights at all, then the ORC is for you since this carbine has no front sight at all; the gas block portion of the front-sight base is all that exists; it's as if someone applied a hacksaw to the FSB and took out the sight and left the gas block. Further, there is no Picatinny rail where the front sight existed; it's smooth so you can't mount a flip-up or fixed front (backup) sight that attaches using a Picatinny rail.

As such, if you go with #2 and you want to mount iron sights, you might have to remove the gas block and replace it with flip-up front-sight/gas block assembly like the beautifully made VLTOR or KAC assemblies. I went to VLTOR too today...they have outstanding stuff.

SIXTO · January 13th, 2007, 12:50 AM

I answered a little to quick.... #1 would be my choice. You can do much more with it than the orc

rocky · January 13th, 2007, 01:13 AM

Gotta agree with Sixto, I thought the ORC would have irons on it of some sort. Why not am M4 flat top A3 type AR? Irons are nice, optics options are even better.
The beauty of the AR is the modular design. I can put a scope on top and shoot distance, put a red dot and shoot action or shoot irons .
The ORC seems like a poor design IMO.

cphilip · January 13th, 2007, 01:13 AM

Here are some stock online photo's I found. Not sure they acurate. But it appears correct that the ORC does not have any front sight...

Option 1 A2

Option 2 (ORC)

srfl · January 13th, 2007, 01:22 AM

...yes, #2 is the ORC and yes, it has NO iron sights....nada, zilch, zippo.

If I were Bushmaster, I'd machine a Picatinny rail atop that baby's rear-end smooth gas block...but that's just me.

rocky · January 13th, 2007, 01:29 AM

BTW, only reason I suggest the 3rd option is my buddy bought a carry handle Bushie. Only later to sell the upper and buy a flattop upper to replace it.
he said he never wanted optics on the original gun, but you never know till ya try it.

srfl · January 13th, 2007, 01:34 AM

Agree with Rocky....I'd just get an "A3" Bushy (removable handle)....at least you'll have a front-sight base and can later get a back-up rear sight if needed/wanted if you do elect to go to optics in the distant future.

January 13th, 2007, 12:04 AM	#3
SIXTO VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Here and There Posts: 10,087	I'd go with #2 as well, it gives you more options. If you want a carry handle, you can buy one to mount on the upper for 50-60 dollars. If you are absolute that you dont want any sort of optics #1 would be OK. There are options for mounting on a #1 as well. __________________ In a land of sheep, even a toothless wolf is king. Wake Up! The zombie invasion has begun years ago.

January 13th, 2007, 12:36 AM	#4
srfl Senior Moderator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: FL Posts: 6,432	I saw the ORC today at the Bushmaster booth at the SHOT Show. If you know that you won't need or want any backup iron sights at all, then the ORC is for you since this carbine has no front sight at all; the gas block portion of the front-sight base is all that exists; it's as if someone applied a hacksaw to the FSB and took out the sight and left the gas block. Further, there is no Picatinny rail where the front sight existed; it's smooth so you can't mount a flip-up or fixed front (backup) sight that attaches using a Picatinny rail. As such, if you go with #2 and you want to mount iron sights, you might have to remove the gas block and replace it with flip-up front-sight/gas block assembly like the beautifully made VLTOR or KAC assemblies. I went to VLTOR too today...they have outstanding stuff. __________________ USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947

January 13th, 2007, 12:50 AM	#5
SIXTO VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Here and There Posts: 10,087	I answered a little to quick.... #1 would be my choice. You can do much more with it than the orc __________________ In a land of sheep, even a toothless wolf is king. Wake Up! The zombie invasion has begun years ago.

January 13th, 2007, 01:13 AM	#6
rocky Senior Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MI Posts: 11,767	Gotta agree with Sixto, I thought the ORC would have irons on it of some sort. Why not am M4 flat top A3 type AR? Irons are nice, optics options are even better. The beauty of the AR is the modular design. I can put a scope on top and shoot distance, put a red dot and shoot action or shoot irons . The ORC seems like a poor design IMO. __________________ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson Nemo Me Impune Lacesset Link to my kydex builds:http://rocknloadkydex.blogspot.com/

January 13th, 2007, 01:13 AM	#7
cphilip Distinguished Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,392	Here are some stock online photo's I found. Not sure they acurate. But it appears correct that the ORC does not have any front sight... Option 1 A2 Option 2 (ORC) __________________ www.cphilip.com

January 12th, 2007, 09:29 PM	#1
cphilip Distinguished Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,392	Going to look at two Bushmasters - input needed Choice #1 - E2S A1 M4 Type Carbine - $815 Choice #2 - E2SLE O.R.C. (Optics Ready Carbine) - $869 Both prices before 5% sales tax, but no additional FFL fee as it's local sale from FFL shop to me. Face to face. Kind of leaning to Choice 1 because of carry handle and A1 sight that is on it and I do not think I am going Optics of any kind and Choice 2 would sort of force me that way immediately from what I can see. I assume the LE in the model is Law Enforcement but I assume thats for the optics ready upper only. I don't see much besides the mounts on top for optics different in either of the specs. They both have 6 position stock, Forward Assist Brass Deflector, 16" Crome Lined M4 barrel, Birdcage flash suppressor, 30 round Mag, Case and Sling. Both Matte Black finish. Seem identical except sights to me. What say you on these two and the price ranges? __________________ www.cphilip.com

January 12th, 2007, 09:41 PM	#2
rocky Senior Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MI Posts: 11,767	I like the option of optics mounting. You could put a scope or dot on or off. But then you would probably want a Iron rear sight too. Carry handle optic mounts are ackward IMO. __________________ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson Nemo Me Impune Lacesset Link to my kydex builds:http://rocknloadkydex.blogspot.com/

January 13th, 2007, 01:22 AM	#8
srfl Senior Moderator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: FL Posts: 6,432	...yes, #2 is the ORC and yes, it has NO iron sights....nada, zilch, zippo. If I were Bushmaster, I'd machine a Picatinny rail atop that baby's rear-end smooth gas block...but that's just me. __________________ USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947

January 13th, 2007, 01:29 AM	#9
rocky Senior Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MI Posts: 11,767	BTW, only reason I suggest the 3rd option is my buddy bought a carry handle Bushie. Only later to sell the upper and buy a flattop upper to replace it. he said he never wanted optics on the original gun, but you never know till ya try it. __________________ "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson Nemo Me Impune Lacesset Link to my kydex builds:http://rocknloadkydex.blogspot.com/

January 13th, 2007, 01:34 AM	#10
srfl Senior Moderator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: FL Posts: 6,432	Agree with Rocky....I'd just get an "A3" Bushy (removable handle)....at least you'll have a front-sight base and can later get a back-up rear sight if needed/wanted if you do elect to go to optics in the distant future. __________________ USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947

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